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88 golf courses possibilty!!!
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Guest
Graham
Thank you for taking the time to challenge and correct my somewhat naive but completely open minded initial thoughts on the subject with some sensitivity.
As I am not one of the 3.1. million European golfers and have very little (almost zero) knowledge of 6400 European golf courses and as part of 378 million EU Europeans (minus the 3.1m golfers and their active supporters - perhaps another 5m) I was very definately thinking about this on a semi serious level for the first time and I think my post suggested that, with a number of "I guess" or "I think" statements.
Graham you did a good job of discussing that with me without becoming either belligerent or belittling and I thank and respect you for that.
Maddi
Thank you for taking the time to challenge and correct my somewhat naive but completely open minded initial thoughts on the subject with some sensitivity.
As I am not one of the 3.1. million European golfers and have very little (almost zero) knowledge of 6400 European golf courses and as part of 378 million EU Europeans (minus the 3.1m golfers and their active supporters - perhaps another 5m) I was very definately thinking about this on a semi serious level for the first time and I think my post suggested that, with a number of "I guess" or "I think" statements.
Graham you did a good job of discussing that with me without becoming either belligerent or belittling and I thank and respect you for that.
Maddi
Maddi,
Great point you inadvertantly raised.
Don't forget to add the foreign golfers from outside the EU that likes to come to Europe and enjoy the vast variety of golf courses (and I guess add to the local economy paying usually premium prices not only for the golf green fees, but hotels, restos, cafe shops, etc...) flavored in their immediate landscape, and the various Euro countries indigenous cultures to soak up too.
Tiny
Great point you inadvertantly raised.
Don't forget to add the foreign golfers from outside the EU that likes to come to Europe and enjoy the vast variety of golf courses (and I guess add to the local economy paying usually premium prices not only for the golf green fees, but hotels, restos, cafe shops, etc...) flavored in their immediate landscape, and the various Euro countries indigenous cultures to soak up too.
Tiny
indeed it is sad when anyone who disagrees with the possibilty of 88 golf courses being developed is classified with the very thing tiny tim accuses others of in using emotive terms with such sweeping comments as"watermelon" - "radical environmentalist" "eco warrior" "obvious leanings to the left"....have you done your "research" to comment on the political views of those that dont want golf courses near them.
perhaps you may find that we are not all card carrying communists, i suppose the next thing is that we will have our phones bugged by MI5 as enemies of the state.
as for the "research" being done by the golf industry can you tell when this will be published, surely after 14 odd years (you say from the early 1990s) some conclusion must have been reached. is the research independent or is like so much else today for example when even cigerette manufacturers are still disputing tobacco addition and its effects.
perhaps you may find that we are not all card carrying communists, i suppose the next thing is that we will have our phones bugged by MI5 as enemies of the state.
as for the "research" being done by the golf industry can you tell when this will be published, surely after 14 odd years (you say from the early 1990s) some conclusion must have been reached. is the research independent or is like so much else today for example when even cigerette manufacturers are still disputing tobacco addition and its effects.
Tiny Tim
I wasn't actually replying to you, as I actually find you certainly belligerant and somewhat aggressive also, but as you now raise the subject I did not calculate the non europeans visiting for the golf as it was not a particularly precise calculation to start with and if I had done, I would had to have taken out all the europeans visiting the USA and playing golf - so for ease I left that at 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other.
Maddi (who is yet to form an opinion)
I wasn't actually replying to you, as I actually find you certainly belligerant and somewhat aggressive also, but as you now raise the subject I did not calculate the non europeans visiting for the golf as it was not a particularly precise calculation to start with and if I had done, I would had to have taken out all the europeans visiting the USA and playing golf - so for ease I left that at 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other.
Maddi (who is yet to form an opinion)
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eco/spider
Its no good all this arguing here on the forum it needs people to take action. Nothing will change until men and women actuallyDO something to stop it!
It gets on my nerves the way you keep going on about bloody golf courses
There is other desicration of the countryside in Algarve such as more motorway and excavation and building of more houses , hotels . Its such a small country that in the end it will be just man made structures with nothing natural left at all 
But no more GOLF Please enughs been said already
It gets on my nerves the way you keep going on about bloody golf courses
There is other desicration of the countryside in Algarve such as more motorway and excavation and building of more houses , hotels . Its such a small country that in the end it will be just man made structures with nothing natural left at all But no more GOLF Please enughs been said already
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Guest
Eco but how are people going to get to the golf courses? on foot? no quite happy to walk miles around a golf course but they will all want to hop into their cars as soon as they have finished the game so they will need more access roads etc. for all these courses & complexes & plant machinery which will be needed to build them.
The buck stops with the Algarveans though - if they don't want continuous expansion and feel that things are going too far then it is up to them to make their views known through protest or official procedure? The majority of us even though we would like to live there are only regular guests and as such have no right to 'interfere'. Maybe Biffa who has the expertise and Gambrinus could let us know residents feelings and their views on whether extra golf courses or any form of building is for the good or detriment now?
Is this thread on the portuguese forum?
On another point, being slightly aware of some political argument last month regarding funding to EU States if the money is dished out more fairly in future (Portugal & other 'smaller' states have benefitted from extra at moment?) which France, Germany, UK? are objecting to then an article said that this would effect investment, tourism in Portugal anyway?
quite happy to walk miles around a golf course but they will all want to hop into their cars as soon as they have finished the game so they will need more access roads etc. for all these courses & complexes & plant machinery which will be needed to build them.The buck stops with the Algarveans though - if they don't want continuous expansion and feel that things are going too far then it is up to them to make their views known through protest or official procedure? The majority of us even though we would like to live there are only regular guests and as such have no right to 'interfere'. Maybe Biffa who has the expertise and Gambrinus could let us know residents feelings and their views on whether extra golf courses or any form of building is for the good or detriment now?
Is this thread on the portuguese forum?On another point, being slightly aware of some political argument last month regarding funding to EU States if the money is dished out more fairly in future (Portugal & other 'smaller' states have benefitted from extra at moment?) which France, Germany, UK? are objecting to then an article said that this would effect investment, tourism in Portugal anyway?
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Moris8
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Guest
golf et al
Fantastic intellectual response Moris. Bet that took some time to think out. Laugh! - thought I'd never start
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Morris8
Maddi,
I know you weren’t replying to me but you made a general statement that I thought could be added upon. Being “a little belligerent and somewhat aggressive”. I just thought to ask you clarification stated on your previous post and what you think is the “environmental impact” of golf courses, and also perhaps think in other terms what does golf bring to the table. If that’s being B&A to you, well so be it.
Eco/spider is right about general development growth in the Algarve, its got to be up the Portuguese government to decide what it wants to do with these issues. And I guess the Portuguese people decide that through their vote. But let’s face it folks, those of you who are against growth, whether you have transplanted yourself down there permanently, or visit as guests, you are part of the whole problem in terms of roads, housing, water, land useage, resources. It appears to me I see a lot of lip service by some posters of this forum to this issue of environmental concern of stopping growth, which in a sense means stay out to the others, while at the same time, enjoying the spoils of the Algarve themselves. It all has a hypocritical ring to it, IMHO.
Martin, OK, enough of the emotive stuff and let’s then show each other the money. You also pull together all the scientific research you have done on the issue, but, no newspaper articles, magazine articles, etc., let’s have hard cold scientific research done with good science at recognized institutions of research, and, I’ll pull together the recognized research I have read, hopefully to also be found in a URL format so I can keep the post down to 1 page. Knowing I, and possibly you, are busy with the day job, say we convene in about a month and show our respective results? I feel its only fair so everyone can judge for himself or herself the both sides, and we give a view from either side. I’d actually be very curious myself of the recognized research and results you find on the subject. What do you say?
Tiny
I know you weren’t replying to me but you made a general statement that I thought could be added upon. Being “a little belligerent and somewhat aggressive”. I just thought to ask you clarification stated on your previous post and what you think is the “environmental impact” of golf courses, and also perhaps think in other terms what does golf bring to the table. If that’s being B&A to you, well so be it.
Eco/spider is right about general development growth in the Algarve, its got to be up the Portuguese government to decide what it wants to do with these issues. And I guess the Portuguese people decide that through their vote. But let’s face it folks, those of you who are against growth, whether you have transplanted yourself down there permanently, or visit as guests, you are part of the whole problem in terms of roads, housing, water, land useage, resources. It appears to me I see a lot of lip service by some posters of this forum to this issue of environmental concern of stopping growth, which in a sense means stay out to the others, while at the same time, enjoying the spoils of the Algarve themselves. It all has a hypocritical ring to it, IMHO.
Martin, OK, enough of the emotive stuff and let’s then show each other the money. You also pull together all the scientific research you have done on the issue, but, no newspaper articles, magazine articles, etc., let’s have hard cold scientific research done with good science at recognized institutions of research, and, I’ll pull together the recognized research I have read, hopefully to also be found in a URL format so I can keep the post down to 1 page. Knowing I, and possibly you, are busy with the day job, say we convene in about a month and show our respective results? I feel its only fair so everyone can judge for himself or herself the both sides, and we give a view from either side. I’d actually be very curious myself of the recognized research and results you find on the subject. What do you say?
Tiny
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Guest
well im sorry tiny tim but I do have a day job, however if you want to see what many have researched then suggest you look to "google" and type in "golf courses and the environment"
from what i have read, there appear to many people from many countries even in places like florida who are becoming "anti" golfcourses not just for the water consumption but also for the use of chemicals etc.
in the meantime im afraid we will have to agree to disagree.
martin
from what i have read, there appear to many people from many countries even in places like florida who are becoming "anti" golfcourses not just for the water consumption but also for the use of chemicals etc.
in the meantime im afraid we will have to agree to disagree.
martin
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Guest