POP IDOLOS

[Ellie]

OOPS!
Put last bit on wrong topic--sorry
Its just that--when I see Diggers name now---somehow food and drink comes to mind

[digger]

[Ellie]

Think you left out Digger-------or this that just me confusing the issue
How did we get to this from pop idolos

[Eva]

Why don't we just let everybody think what they want to think, culture is culture and just leave it like that shall we.

[Danny]

All this talk of "culture" raises the question of a man "blacked up" (Black Peter)who chases children around at Christmas time if theyve been supposedly naughty. All done in front of black students in Holland. This was my experience and not very nice one
Culture
The vision of those many white young Dutch students grotesquely "made up" faces .Huge red lips and blackened face& curly wig.This will stay with me.Iwasupset by the confused slightly fearful look on the faces of those few young blackstudents that had to witness this horrible distortion
This "culcha" we could well do without. Eh Eva

[Ellie]

Ive just read Dannys posting and have to say that my youngest had similar experience in Holland.
He was a teaching assistant at a college and felt equally disturbed --there was just one young black student in his class--an Angolan that was affected .
But son had his own disturbing experience--of feeling an outsider--a foreigner. His apartment was in a block where there were mainly Turkish students and he had stones thrown at his window at night--gangs of yobs calling out "Go home "botelander"(foreigner-not sure of spelling)-and still being quite young -this of course made him feel very fearful.
On reporting these events to the Head of college,there was a shrug of the shoulders and the answer "Oh -they probably think you are Turkish"! Nothing was done about it--it was as if to say--if youre Turkish here --then its ok to do it There were quite a number of Turkish students in the college and though happy to be getting further education-son noticed they had a very "subjugated" look. They were excellent students making good progress and he made many friends --but what he couldnt cope with was the way they were treated--as outsiders
The "Black Peter" occurrence he never understood either-seeing it as demeaning and offensive,totally outmoded--and he has no desire to return there

[Peter Belinfante]

"Go home "botelander"(foreigner-not sure of spelling)

Almost right Ellie; the spelling is: "buitenlander".

I can understand your son's fear; altough I'm not very young anymore I sometimes am also affraid when I end up between a large group of these people, they act sometimes very hostile against everyone. And when you dare to say something about it the answer allways is: "You are discriminating"! More and more there is a raising problem in the Netherlands with ethnic groups like people from Marocco, Turkey and the Dutch Antilles, especially in the big cities like Rotterdam and Amsterdam.
This worries me a lot. Even in my home town (75.000 inhabitants; about 20% from minority groups) these events sometimes happen. A few days ago my wife and my daughter (16) walked in the shopping center and they came across a group off young (16-19 year) Maroc boys; they made sounds to my daughter like: psssss, psssss and shouted at her "lekker ding" (you can translated it like: hé sexy thing!) This is very frightening! So my daughter has a bottle of pepper-spray in her bag! (not allowed) But she has my blessing!

[Ellie]

i do sympathise with you Peter--and I dont blame you for giving your daughter that protection.
These "yob" elements are everywhere in all our countries arent they?
Id like to say that my son made some very good friends in Holland who he has stayed in touch with.Hes a very caring young man and felt worried for his students but he couldnt handle the racist attacks.
i wish you and your family well--best wishes, Ellie