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Golf developments in Portugal
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djprescott
- CVO Master
- Posts: 637
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:53 am
- Location: Warwick UK & Sesmarias
- Contact:
Golf developments in Portugal
For anyone who is interested, BBC radio fivelive are discussing the problem of proposed new golf developments on the Algarve and other parts of Portugal, as part of the programme for the draw for Euro 2004.
MW693 - on now - 10.25am Sunday. Dave.
MW693 - on now - 10.25am Sunday. Dave.
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Ellie
Golf courses
Dave,
I was listening to 5 live this morning---and about Euro 2004---heard the German chap(cant spell his name --is it Yurgen klinsman or something) and who he thought would come through--but--then I went for my long morning walk and must have missed the talk on proposed new golf courses-----
Whats the latest news?
I was listening to 5 live this morning---and about Euro 2004---heard the German chap(cant spell his name --is it Yurgen klinsman or something) and who he thought would come through--but--then I went for my long morning walk and must have missed the talk on proposed new golf courses-----
Whats the latest news?
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djprescott
- CVO Master
- Posts: 637
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:53 am
- Location: Warwick UK & Sesmarias
- Contact:
Hi Ellie, not a lot more was said that we don't already know - and has been discussed on this forum. A local environmentalist was giving her views on the subject and saying that whilst there was a demand, mainly from people form the uk, developers will always find a way to get around the planning consent!! My concern is that the problem will spiral out of control. More golf developments will then strebgthen the case for more building developments and that in turn will 'create' a demand for more golf courses. The question is: Will the Portuguese government be strong enough to say enough is enough?
Dave
Dave
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Pierre
To many so-called environmentalists, the environment is anything but a golf course or development- it is what gets them through another troubled day in this imperfect world- their reason for being.
To most lay people as myself, the environment is extremely important, but primarily in the context of our interaction with it and not as an end in itself.
In my humble opinion, we can't just look at the environment in the abstract as an entity all to itself. The Earth is a vehicle that sustains mankind through the ages. It should be protected carefully, but not worshipped like a god.
Many in the hard-core environmentalist community are societal malcontents. They are “anti” most established practices and institutions that have evolved over centuries through trial and error. They are mostly socialists who if they were not demonstrating/protesting on behalf of one cause, they would be doing the same on another. That the worst environmental nightmares and incidences of mass killings have occurred in countries governed by similarly minded, though perhaps more committed people, totally escapes them.
These are the same folks who block the drilling for oil in Alaska, yet accuse those who drive trucks and SUVs of supporting terrorism. And they do this unashamedly while their well-heeled brothers prance about the world in their private jets and throw lavish parties in their 10,000 square foot "cottages".
It would be nice to be able to have a rational debate examining the benefits and costs of certain developments, or even the more esoteric concept of the highest and best use (for a piece of land). But when the other side refuses to acknowledge the basic notion of private property rights, one is merely pissing into the wind. So, from the standpoint that we can't even have a grown-up discussion with the other side, I am sad to say that environmental issues have become a joke.
To most lay people as myself, the environment is extremely important, but primarily in the context of our interaction with it and not as an end in itself.
In my humble opinion, we can't just look at the environment in the abstract as an entity all to itself. The Earth is a vehicle that sustains mankind through the ages. It should be protected carefully, but not worshipped like a god.
Many in the hard-core environmentalist community are societal malcontents. They are “anti” most established practices and institutions that have evolved over centuries through trial and error. They are mostly socialists who if they were not demonstrating/protesting on behalf of one cause, they would be doing the same on another. That the worst environmental nightmares and incidences of mass killings have occurred in countries governed by similarly minded, though perhaps more committed people, totally escapes them.
These are the same folks who block the drilling for oil in Alaska, yet accuse those who drive trucks and SUVs of supporting terrorism. And they do this unashamedly while their well-heeled brothers prance about the world in their private jets and throw lavish parties in their 10,000 square foot "cottages".
It would be nice to be able to have a rational debate examining the benefits and costs of certain developments, or even the more esoteric concept of the highest and best use (for a piece of land). But when the other side refuses to acknowledge the basic notion of private property rights, one is merely pissing into the wind. So, from the standpoint that we can't even have a grown-up discussion with the other side, I am sad to say that environmental issues have become a joke.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To many so-called environmentalists, the environment is anything but a golf course or development- it is what gets them through another troubled day in this imperfect world- their reason for being.
.....................
(Ok, for starters, "so-called", tells me you arn't a tree hugger, and you think that those who are, use Nature to look at to keep from sucking their thumbs)
...............
To most lay people as myself, the environment is extremely important, but primarily in the context of our interaction with it and not as an end in itself.
..................
(Sounds like you are just sucking another Thumb)
....................
In my humble opinion, we can't just look at the environment in the abstract as an entity all to itself. The Earth is a vehicle that sustains mankind through the ages. It should be protected carefully, but not worshipped like a god.
........................................................................
(In my humble opinion, God deals with the Dead, Nature deals with the Living.)
.............................
Many in the hard-core environmentalist community are societal malcontents. They are “anti” most established practices and institutions that have evolved over centuries through trial and error. They are mostly socialists who if they were not demonstrating/protesting on behalf of one cause, they would be doing the same on another. That the worst environmental nightmares and incidences of mass killings have occurred in countries governed by similarly minded, though perhaps more committed people, totally escapes them.
............
(Ya gatta love this one..."Save A Tree And Kill Someone")
...................
These are the same folks who block the drilling for oil in Alaska, yet accuse those who drive trucks and SUVs of supporting terrorism.
.........................
(Last time I looked, most of the proven reserves of Oil were in the Mid-East and driving an SUV doesn't help things)
........................
And they do this unashamedly while their well-heeled brothers prance about the world in their private jets and throw lavish parties in their 10,000 square foot "cottages".
......................
(Get me an invitation, if you can,...they never call me)
It would be nice to be able to have a rational debate
(can you make one?)
examining the benefits and costs of certain developments, or even the more esoteric concept of the highest and best use (for a piece of land).
But when the other side refuses to acknowledge the basic notion of private property rights,
(I don't rember anyone saying they didn't)
one is merely pissing into the wind.
(Not a good idea)
So, from the standpoint that we can't even have a grown-up discussion with the other side, I am sad to say that environmental issues have become a joke.
(As have you, Sweet Pea, as have you.......)
May your gas always be in your tank,
And the AC always smell sweet.
....Cowboy
To many so-called environmentalists, the environment is anything but a golf course or development- it is what gets them through another troubled day in this imperfect world- their reason for being.
.....................
(Ok, for starters, "so-called", tells me you arn't a tree hugger, and you think that those who are, use Nature to look at to keep from sucking their thumbs)
...............
To most lay people as myself, the environment is extremely important, but primarily in the context of our interaction with it and not as an end in itself.
..................
(Sounds like you are just sucking another Thumb)
....................
In my humble opinion, we can't just look at the environment in the abstract as an entity all to itself. The Earth is a vehicle that sustains mankind through the ages. It should be protected carefully, but not worshipped like a god.
........................................................................
(In my humble opinion, God deals with the Dead, Nature deals with the Living.)
.............................
Many in the hard-core environmentalist community are societal malcontents. They are “anti” most established practices and institutions that have evolved over centuries through trial and error. They are mostly socialists who if they were not demonstrating/protesting on behalf of one cause, they would be doing the same on another. That the worst environmental nightmares and incidences of mass killings have occurred in countries governed by similarly minded, though perhaps more committed people, totally escapes them.
............
(Ya gatta love this one..."Save A Tree And Kill Someone")
...................
These are the same folks who block the drilling for oil in Alaska, yet accuse those who drive trucks and SUVs of supporting terrorism.
.........................
(Last time I looked, most of the proven reserves of Oil were in the Mid-East and driving an SUV doesn't help things)
........................
And they do this unashamedly while their well-heeled brothers prance about the world in their private jets and throw lavish parties in their 10,000 square foot "cottages".
......................
(Get me an invitation, if you can,...they never call me)
It would be nice to be able to have a rational debate
(can you make one?)
examining the benefits and costs of certain developments, or even the more esoteric concept of the highest and best use (for a piece of land).
But when the other side refuses to acknowledge the basic notion of private property rights,
(I don't rember anyone saying they didn't)
one is merely pissing into the wind.
(Not a good idea)
So, from the standpoint that we can't even have a grown-up discussion with the other side, I am sad to say that environmental issues have become a joke.
(As have you, Sweet Pea, as have you.......)
May your gas always be in your tank,
And the AC always smell sweet.
....Cowboy
-
Gerry
Off the track but maybe on the same line,nick faldo has bought a small island off the west coast of ireland for 3,500,00 euro and wants to put in a world class golf course,problem is its a kind of a bird santuary which dozens of birdwatchers vist now and again,nick has promised to design as sympatheticly as possible.All the locals are over the moon and why not ,it will put the nearby coastline on the map the place will boom,but the local enviornment boys and girls (mainly english ex pats)aren,t having it .Might be worth watching this as a sort of project in motion.
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Ellie
sharing the Earth
Having just got in from couple hours hard labour I came on hereto have a break and maybe read something cheerful! But all I can say is that on reading Pierres long statement and then Gerrys information I now feel thoroughly pissed off 
Maybe you should have shortened it Pierre and just called "envrionmentalists" /& people who happen to care about the natural world--nutters
I do happen to believe that God created us and that we were given charge over the Earth & all other living creatures--a great responsibilty--but not to slaughter --maim and wipe out our fellow creatures --for as sure as eggs are eggs--thats the path we are taking--and to PierreId say
"ensemencer le vent et recueillir le troubillon!"
My grammar may not be correct but its "sow the wind and reap the whirlwind!"
Not many came on a previous topic about the extinction of the IberianLynx--whos habitat has been gradually eroded through over development--in this tear-it -up --- carve-it-up--throwaway society we're in-- anything goes ---and who gives a damn if its yet another living creature thats sacrificed
As for Faldo Gerry--lucky him who has the fortune to build his own little playground /disneyworld--wouldnt he have been better using such money to maintain the wildlife sanctuary--a place where our children could visit and see the value of living in harmony with our fellow creatures
Good for those who are caring enought to put their time and energy into fighting for the rights of our fellow creatures and their habitats---
So far --I havent yet tied myself to a tree--but I think Im on the way to getting there--
This morning as I ate breakfast--I could see in my garden--a beautiful song thrush on my large crabapple tree--it sang and then ate the golden fruits and that started my day well---but now I just feel angry and upset
Maybe you should have shortened it Pierre and just called "envrionmentalists" /& people who happen to care about the natural world--nutters
I do happen to believe that God created us and that we were given charge over the Earth & all other living creatures--a great responsibilty--but not to slaughter --maim and wipe out our fellow creatures --for as sure as eggs are eggs--thats the path we are taking--and to PierreId say
"ensemencer le vent et recueillir le troubillon!"
My grammar may not be correct but its "sow the wind and reap the whirlwind!"
Not many came on a previous topic about the extinction of the IberianLynx--whos habitat has been gradually eroded through over development--in this tear-it -up --- carve-it-up--throwaway society we're in-- anything goes ---and who gives a damn if its yet another living creature thats sacrificed
As for Faldo Gerry--lucky him who has the fortune to build his own little playground /disneyworld--wouldnt he have been better using such money to maintain the wildlife sanctuary--a place where our children could visit and see the value of living in harmony with our fellow creatures
Good for those who are caring enought to put their time and energy into fighting for the rights of our fellow creatures and their habitats---
So far --I havent yet tied myself to a tree--but I think Im on the way to getting there--
This morning as I ate breakfast--I could see in my garden--a beautiful song thrush on my large crabapple tree--it sang and then ate the golden fruits and that started my day well---but now I just feel angry and upset
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eco/spider
nutters
Pierre, Could you tell me how to have a grown up debate with people who club to death seal pups,harpoon rare whales for "scientific" research, hunt from helicopters wolves deer and other wild animals some of which are supposed to be protected,breed animals so that we can use their lovely soft fur for a coat,(yes I am aware that people in cold climates do this, but at least they eat the meat as well). As you may have gathered I am aginst anyone or anything that does or could deprive me or my grandchildren of the beautyof nature, which if it wasn't for nutters like me may well be the case, my politacal afiliations have nothing to do with it, I would say however, that most of the people who crow the most about us,the great unwashed, seem to be from the capatalist ilk, stones and glass houses come to mind. Finally I have found that many golfers not only play with balls, they tend to talk it
Having deliberatley not entered the "great golf debate", I am not really responding to this post but . . . .
this evening my daughter bought in some homework, she had to research organisations which "cared" about the environment and I suggested she started with 'Friends of the Earth' and 'GreenPeace' - after an hour she came back to me stating that she had had considerable success researching 'Friends of the Earth' but she couldn't find anything on 'Greenpeas' - bless.
Maddi
this evening my daughter bought in some homework, she had to research organisations which "cared" about the environment and I suggested she started with 'Friends of the Earth' and 'GreenPeace' - after an hour she came back to me stating that she had had considerable success researching 'Friends of the Earth' but she couldn't find anything on 'Greenpeas' - bless.
Maddi