A22 toll options - your opinion?

[Steen Jakobsen]

This is the model used by AVIS and other International companies. You pay both the transponder rental and the tolls.

I am surprised that YOR want to copy the Avis business model.

Next thing, YOR will be offering brand new cars, triple the price and very high charges for all extras.

Hence the poll; What do clients prefer - so far it looks as if the right solution has been in use, but it would be nice to offer an alternative if possible.

[Satsuma]

I have been following the toll fiasco through this forum as we visit 1 - 2 times a year & it's been very informative.
I can see why the poll is being done but I think you've got to bear in mind that most people voting for option 3 have some way of paying the tolls after they have left the country being they are mainly very regular visitors who may know someone who can pay it for them. I think that covers the main members of this forum but maybe that is where Yor car hire get the majority of their renters from.
As you all know you can not pay for your return journey in advance so option 3 is not suitable for the general tourist who doesn't want to run the risk of fines on returning home.

[Steen Jakobsen]

I have been following the toll fiasco through this forum as we visit 1 - 2 times a year & it's been very informative.
I can see why the poll is being done but I think you've got to bear in mind that most people voting for option 3 have some way of paying the tolls after they have left the country being they are mainly very regular visitors who may know someone who can pay it for them. I think that covers the main members of this forum but maybe that is where Yor car hire get the majority of their renters from.
As you all know you can not pay for your return journey in advance so option 3 is not suitable for the general tourist who doesn't want to run the risk of fines on returning home.

I agree and whereby option 1 is good for those with a short stay and heavy use of the A22, option 2 is probably the one to fit the most. Hopefully Yor will be able to offer more than one prepaid package, e.g. 10, 20, 30 euro + the administration fee.

The administrative burden sorting these tolls is horrendous for the car rental companies, and this in an already difficult market.

[e-richard]

... option 2 is probably the one to fit the most. Hopefully Yor will be able to offer more than one prepaid package, e.g. 10, 20, 30 euro + the administration fee..

With a choice of prepaid packages, I've just changed my vote to #2

I came out a couple of weeks ago for a weekend only. So short it was impossible to pay the tolls either direction, but the total tolls for the rental period was < €6 so €20 would be a rip off.
On the other hand, I'm going out again in Nov for 3 weeks and a lot of chores, so a different package may indeed make more sense.

Happy for YOR (or any other rental company) to make a reasonable charge for the Admin burden, but not 300% or more.

[RichardHenshall]

I'm puzzled by the pre-pay options, Presumably they are to satisfy those who either can't be bothered with saving the few euros of change or are nervous about leaving an open debit/credit card slip. What happens if you pay 10€ but then incur 15€ of tolls? Who pays the extra? By the time the rental company knows of the overspend, it's probably too late.

Given that the cost of the transponder is tiny compared to the cost of the car (and will probably outlive it) why is it deemed necessary to charge for its use at all? Many companies supply optional child seats for free.

[Steen Jakobsen]

What happens if you pay 10€ but then incur 15€ of tolls? Who pays the extra? By the time the rental company knows of the overspend, it's probably too late.

Your credit card would be charged. If refused the car rental company would probably be liable, hence the need to make provisions for this possibility.

Given that the cost of the transponder is tiny compared to the cost of the car (and will probably outlive it) why is it deemed necessary to charge for its use at all? Many companies supply optional child seats for free.

It is not the transponder as such, but the paperwork involved (Filling and signing the contract, then forwarding it to the authorities).

[RichardHenshall]

What happens if you pay 10€ but then incur 15€ of tolls? Who pays the extra? By the time the rental company knows of the overspend, it's probably too late.

Your credit card would be charged. If refused the car rental company would probably be liable, hence the need to make provisions for this possibility.

Given that the cost of the transponder is tiny compared to the cost of the car (and will probably outlive it) why is it deemed necessary to charge for its use at all? Many companies supply optional child seats for free.

It is not the transponder as such, but the paperwork involved (Filling and signing the contract, then forwarding it to the authorities).

I see from today's Portugal News that this discussion may be academic in that Yor etc will be pushed towards a variation on your option 1. I still think that up to 18,40€ is far too much and that that proposed system is unnecessarily bureaucratic and cumbersome (but this is Portugal!). If the hire company paid the tolls by transponder/direct debit etc with minimum effort and then concentrated its efforts on collecting enough cash/money from renters, without all the paperwork, to cover the charges (and a little extra for costs and contingencies), then everyone would 'benefit'.

[Bruce Wallis]

I'm sorry, but I still think that the hire company solutions are essentially means of making more money as well as covering costs.

I have just read the story in the Algarve Resident as to how the whole SCUT tolls system has been a massive loss generator for the Portuguese Government. Apparently every car journey on the A22 represents a 17 euro loss to the government, and the year on year loss this year is a 37% loss of 19.9 million euros on the A22 alone.
AND, the A22 isnt the worst performer!!!

Any sensible economist would ask how you can possibly sustain this system......but this is Portugal.
10 euros on every road fund tax disc?? Problem over.

[Steen Jakobsen]

Customers will be charged a daily administration fee of €1.84 (€1.50 plus VAT) for a maximum of ten days.

In my humble opinion it would be more logical and fair to charge a fixed administration fee if the transponder is activated, regardless of the length of the car rental. The administration cost must be the same.

But making something easy complicated seems to be an important part of the Nations Pride...

[Bruce Wallis]

.

But making something easy complicated seems to be an important part of the Nations Pride...

Cant argue with that!!

[Farol]

So based on this if I was in CVO area for a fortnight's holiday the fixed fee and tolls (using the motorway just for the airport run) would cost approx €30 and even if I use the N125 and avoid the tolls I'm still going to get stung an extra €18.40. This is too high but the proposal leaves me with no choice.

Why should I have to pay to rent a device I don't need or want if I'm happy to use the N125?

Last year I hired a car for approx 60 days in total so this adds a significant amount.

[RichardHenshall]

... Why should I have to pay to rent a device I don't need or want if I'm happy to use the N125?

Last year I hired a car for approx 60 days in total so this adds a significant amount.

I understood that it would be an optional extra. However, regular visitors do have the alternative option to purchase their own transponder if they intend to use electronically tolled roads regularly.

27,50€ to buy (for life) seems very good value compared with 18,40€ for every 10+ day hire. Granted there are issues relating to keeping the device activated by means of regular funding but they're very much like PAYG mobile phones in that respect.

In my humble opinion it would be more logical and fair to charge a fixed administration fee if the transponder is activated, regardless of the length of the car rental. The administration cost must be the same.

But making something easy complicated seems to be an important part of the Nations Pride...

I agree with both.

[Farol]

regular visitors do have the alternative option to purchase their own transponder if they intend to use electronically tolled roads regularly.

27,50€ to buy (for life) seems very good value

How would this work? If all rental cars are fitted with transponders as standard and I then get in and drive with my own transponder how would the sensors be able to distinguish. Isn't the personal one still linked to a specific car? Is there a link to a page that describes this 27.50 euro option?

[RichardHenshall]

How would this work? If all rental cars are fitted with transponders as standard and I then get in and drive with my own transponder how would the sensors be able to distinguish?

A valid point. You need to ensure that your personal one is the only one the gantries 'see'. Someone posted about this elsewhere. If I recall he said that his own one in his luggage wasn't registered. Put the car's transponder in your luggage and put your one on the windscreen. However, if you've declined the hire company's option their transponder might not be in the car at all.

Isn't the personal one still linked to a specific car? Is there a link to a page that describes this 27.50 euro option?

No. I posted about it here. I can confirm through experience that if the device is active but the pre-paid balance is insufficient before the journey it still works properly as you have about 3 weeks (not sure exactly) in which to add the necessary credit. On my last visit I used the A22 to Lagos on 24 September and again back to Faro on 6 October and then 'pre-paid' for both on 15 October from the UK with online banking.

[Bruce Wallis]

Over....over....over.....over complication.

Keep it simple
Keep it transparent

A small charge on a weekly hire,no more than 10 euros, sliding down the longer the hire.

On a long term hire, over a month, insist the client buy a transponder.