Increase Police roadside checks

[Octopus]

It just stinks of time wasting, pointless bureaucracy - the government already have full information on everyones cars and tax returns so why do they need to harass you at the roadside over that? They can compare all of that information easily without wasting your time in person. Plus it means they catch everyone they should, not just people who have the misfortune to live near a regular checkpoint.

[EMM]

So every one in Portugal, or any where else for that matter declares every ,cent, penny of income and nevers buys anything with undeclared or underclared cash.
No accountant ever sets out to ensure that his clients pay the maximum tax.

[Bruce Wallis]

It just stinks of time wasting, pointless bureaucracy - the government already have full information on everyones cars and tax returns so why do they need to harass you at the roadside over that? They can compare all of that information easily without wasting your time in person. Plus it means they catch everyone they should, not just people who have the misfortune to live near a regular checkpoint.

This isnt just pointless bureaucracy. This is serious revenue generation!!
Stop a car.....no personal I/D.....40 euros spot fine
Other transgressions......another spot fine.....its all about quotas.
This doesnt just happen in Portugal, it happens everywhere, even the UK. Traffic cameras arent there for road safety....they are cash cows.
Unmarked police cars carrying speed cameras......helping to fulfil the local chief constables financial target for the month.

[pato]

So every one in Portugal, or any where else for that matter declares every ,cent, penny of income and nevers buys anything with undeclared or underclared cash.
No accountant ever sets out to ensure that his clients pay the maximum tax.

HHMMMmm! not sure about that statement EMM the word legal enters the discussion. Taxes are taxes and the accountant ensures you don't overpay, well that's how I see it anyway.

[steve]

Regrettably too many expats who live here enough time to be legally tax resident seem to regard the country as simply a holiday place where it is OK not to account for taxes legally due. It is notable that under another post my view about paying tax properly due was regarded as naive. In the case of foreigners in the UK it is often said that if you don't like the rules go home. The Portuguese are entitled to say the same thing. You can't keep a foreign registered car in the UK for more than 6 months or not be liable for tax on income if you are tax resident so why should you expect to do this here.

[TomUK]

[quote="Bruce Wallis - This isnt just pointless bureaucracy. This is serious revenue generation!!
Stop a car.....no personal I/D.....40 euros spot fine
Other transgressions......another spot fine.....its all about quotas.
[quote]

I noticed when reading the Algarve Driver website that it is illegal to park at the kerbside facing against the traffic flow in the Algarve. Has anyone been booked for this? I have done it a number of times not realising the rule. Never booked - have I just been lucky?

[traveler]

Regrettably too many expats who live here enough time to be legally tax resident seem to regard the country as simply a holiday place where it is OK not to account for taxes legally due. It is notable that under another post my view about paying tax properly due was regarded as naive. In the case of foreigners in the UK it is often said that if you don't like the rules go home. The Portuguese are entitled to say the same thing. You can't keep a foreign registered car in the UK for more than 6 months or not be liable for tax on income if you are tax resident so why should you expect to do this here.

You make a good point.

However, when the levels of corruption are high and the locals do the same, some people take the attitude of "When in Rome..." It is as much about the mores of a place as it is about the laws. When you try to do it right in PT, you are often penalized. I get tired of that. I would be happy to register my car in PT, if it was reasonable. I drive a 10 year old BMW and it spends about 6 months out of every year in PT. It is 'domiciled' in another country. I would have it down there more often if I could but the cost is prohibitive (ridiculously so). I am planning on moving back so will have to doublecheck the latest on this. Hopefully, PT will comply with this (if it is adopted):
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAct ... anguage=en

[EMM]

You will now find that the road tax older imports now pay is considerably higher than newer vehicles as it is based on the cost as if NEW but penalised for it higher exhaust emmissions,
Old PT reg vehicles of course do not pay these higher taxes.

[EMM]

Regrettably too many expats who live here enough time to be legally tax resident seem to regard the country as simply a holiday place where it is OK not to account for taxes legally due. It is notable that under another post my view about paying tax properly due was regarded as naive. In the case of foreigners in the UK it is often said that if you don't like the rules go home. The Portuguese are entitled to say the same thing. You can't keep a foreign registered car in the UK for more than 6 months or not be liable for tax on income if you are tax resident so why should you expect to do this here.

You make a good point.

However, when the levels of corruption are high and the locals do the same, some people take the attitude of "When in Rome..." It is as much about the mores of a place as it is about the laws. When you try to do it right in PT, you are often penalized. I get tired of that. I would be happy to register my car in PT, if it was reasonable. I drive a 10 year old BMW and it spends about 6 months out of every year in PT. It is 'domiciled' in CZ. I would have it down there more often if I could but the cost is prohibitive (ridiculously so). I am planning on moving back so will have to doublecheck the latest on this. Hopefully, PT will comply with this (if it is adopted):
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAct ... anguage=en

I have read the artcle as we have an car we would like to bring out and in one of the links it does state under
" What will NOT change " are vehicle and registration taxes ".
Which basically means that if Portugal complies and reduces the paperwork it DOES NOT have to change its internal tax regime.

So Possibly Easier and Quicker but NOT cheaper.

[traveler]

Emm, I read it differently, but of course, through the prism of my own situation. This was key (for me): The proposal introduces the principle that a car should be registered in the EU country where its owner lives, and that all other Member States may not ask her/him to register the car with them, even if the car owner spend a longer period there. So, if your permanent residence is considered to be in PT, then yes, you have to re-register.

[EMM]

The parts that are relevant to us are.

1) if you spend part of the year such as on holiday then you do not have to register.

2) If you spend more than 6 months ( as a private owner , not a business owned vehicle etc ) Then you still have to register.

The section about NO change in taxes etc is covered in the link " Registration of Motor vehicles coming from another country ".

The proposed legislation appears to be aimed NOT at the private user but those on business, working abroad , hire car companies etc.

But any change or simplification is the rules must be welcome.

2014 is the intended date of change so we will just have to wait and see.

[Octopus]

Regrettably too many expats who live here enough time to be legally tax resident seem to regard the country as simply a holiday place where it is OK not to account for taxes legally due. It is notable that under another post my view about paying tax properly due was regarded as naive. In the case of foreigners in the UK it is often said that if you don't like the rules go home. The Portuguese are entitled to say the same thing. You can't keep a foreign registered car in the UK for more than 6 months or not be liable for tax on income if you are tax resident so why should you expect to do this here.

Realistically though concessions need to be made for the foreigners who inject a lot of money into the economy. Whether these concessions consist of unofficial non-enforcement of specific rules, or just straight up new laws for foreigners only, it doesn't really matter. The locals might cry about it for a bit... but they'd cry far more if all these people just packed up and left.

Look at the situation in UK with foreign non doms - the UK government are bending over backwards for them with specific tax rules that me or you wouldn't qualify for if we lived there. Even with massive tax breaks all these rich people are putting far more into the economy than they take out so it makes sense to cut them a good deal to keep them. Its a buyers market... if a country doesn't give you the tax regime you want then there are plenty other countries who will be happy to have you.

There is no way all of these rich arabs, russians and indians would be living in UK if it wasn't for the non dom stuff. Sure the might not pay the same income tax as you would... but everything they consume (paid for by money they earned in another country) is money into the UK economy.

[steve]

An interesting argument but unfortunately it is totally unrealistic to compare the situation of the comparatively few super rich non- doms in the UK with the typical expat here in Portugal, many of whom contribute no more and probably a lot less to the local economy than well off Portuguese nationals. With the UK non-doms it is in most many cases the revenue stream generated through their business activities rather than their personal spending that is important to the UK economy. Why should everyday foreigners in any country get fiscal advantages not available to equivalent local nationals?

[Octopus]

Non domiciles in the uk aren't all super rich like you think - it makes sense to be one even only earning 200k a year outside of uk.

as to why should foreigners beta fiscal advantages not available to equivalent locals... Well that one is easy. The locals are inevitably tied to here so the tax people don't need to cut them favourable deals - they're forced to stay here regardless. If a reasonably well off foreigner has already decided to lie in another country he can shop around for a good deal.

Look at all the foreigners living in Switzerland, they even negotiate their income tax level. I don't follow tennis so might be getting the name wrong but I remember a Swiss pro player (Natal?) complaining that he was paying far more tax than other foreign tennis players who lived near his house.

Sure it's not fair on Natal... But the equivalent was these people not living in Switzerland at all, paying no tax there and spending nothing there.

[Gary/Gaynor]

Drove out of Lagoa the other day and saw at least 12 policemen stopping all and sundry. They are after money nothing more nothing less its called haresment !! They are a bloody nuisance and if it happened in the UK somebody would have kicked up a bit of shit thats for sure. I know law abiding people who have lived out here many a year who make sure they have 120 bucks with them thats what it costs for any slight infringement..... Its wrong plain and simple but Im sure EMM will disagree but hey ho

Gary