Ellie's Corner - Guarda - now & then.

Michael Crane · Post by **Michael Crane** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:16 pm

Two years ago whilst staying just outside Lagos we parked our hire car in the hypermarket car park taking care to lock our backpacks in the boot out of sight. The car had central locking, and, with a click of the control I locked the car and of we went shopping. It was early evening getting darker by the minute.

When we returned approximately 20 minutes later I pressed the control and nothing happened. I pressed again, still nothing. Sharen tried her door and it opened! I was certain I'd locked it, but I was beginning to doubt it. An inspection of the car didn't reveal any obvious break in.

Accusing me of leaving the car unlocked Sharen unlocked the boot (not affected by central,locking) and discovered the two backpacks- and other bits and bobs - had gone! We'd been robbed because I failed to lock the door.

We went immediately to the police station to report the theft and to itemise the belongings we'd lost: digital camera, another camera, binoculars, pda, mobile phones, mp3 player, mini-disc player - the list went on. Astonishingly the total cash value was over £1,500!!!

Of course I had to shoulder the entire blame for the loss - after all, I had left the car unlocked. A fact that the police kept reminding me of. As we described the losses and their value it was evident that we were under suspicion of making a fradulent claim and the officer 'interrogating' us almost said as much.

I found them unsympathetic, unhelpful and intimidating. Sharen was reduced to tears by their attitude. I was admonished for having so many valuable things in my backpack and told by the officer that I was a fool to carry it around with me. He said that he was tired of holiday makers coming in to his station complaining of being robbed of their cameras and binoculars and money etc. We should not have them with us but leave them in our apartments or hotels, he told us. It was our fault entirely for walking about with such provocative items! I tried to point out that we carry it with us because we're on holiday and that taking pictures, using binoculars, listening to a Walkman, and spending money was what we do - we're on holiday! He was not impressed.

He went on to tell us that this car park is well known to them and theft from vehicles is a very regular event. So regular in fact that they even had an A4 pad 1" thick of the car park layout so that we could pinpoint exactly where we parked!

The following morning in the full light of day I spotted a tiny hole, the size a dart would make, just under the handle on the driver's side. The thieves had driven a spike through the panel and tripped the central locking. Although this didn't open the boot it didn't matter, all they had to do was lower the back seat and help themselves to our stuff!

We returned to the police station and reported our finding and they were not at all interested. They refused to come out and look at it and they refused to alter the statement of the previous night that there were no signs of a break-in and that the car had been left unlocked.

I took pictures of the hole (with a new camera) and the back seat folded down to show the insurance company that I hadn't left the car unlocked. This action ensured we recovered some of our losses, but, if left to the police report then the assessor said that we'd have got nothing!

I was not impressed by the police in Lagos!

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:56 pm

That was most interesting to read Michael and highlights what my Portuguese friends said to me during recent holiday--Im glad you managed to get some compensation. I hope you had a nice holiday despite this upset?
I dont think Im looking through "rose-coloured" glasses when I said that the guarda did seem nicer/more pleasant during our resident time and that we did get to know the"local bobbies"and they were specially nice to Jamie.
strange how things go--we accidently left our van unlocked outside our apartment one night---next morning the intercom went --it was a local man telling us that the window was open--when we went down to look--everything was still there--business papers/some money---what was missing? A tape measure

They were happy days in all---and we felt that the local cops were part of the community-----sad to see things change-"and" I dont like to see local innocent people so intimidated--who do they turn to if they really need help?

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:02 pm

P.S .Sorry --forgot to add --holiday makers too should be able to go to guarda for help when in trouble---like yourself Michael and us --when we really needed it--it wasn't there--and you're left feeling helpless.
I just thank God we had some friends to turn to this September.

Michael Crane · Post by **Michael Crane** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:06 pm

The incident marred the holiday but it didn't spoil it - we didn't let it. However, I had left my passport in the bag (I know I shouldn't have done so!) and it was right pain in the bum getting a temporary replacement.

We had rented our villa through a travel agent and therefore we sought the aid of the rep. He was as much use as a chocolate fire guard!

He told us, "Leave it all to me, sir." And so I did. After three days, and only two before we were to fly back home, he still hadn't sorted it out. I did it myself in the end. In fact we never saw him at all after his, "leave it to me" cobblers!

digger · Post by **digger** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:55 pm

Well I had a laughable brush with the law. Was about 20 years ago my Portuguese girlfriend (who later became my wife) and I drove from Lisbon up to Sintra for the day, arrived somewhere in the centre of town and attempted to park on a pavement, as they do. A policeman approaches, can’t park there, fair enough. What a nice man, he tells us exactly where we can park and is watching over us as I reverse in. We thank him and go off in search of lunch. We get back to the car about four or five hours later to find we’ve got a ticket!!! Ha Ha so we go down to the cop shop to explain. First cop shrugs, consults second cop shrugs, then a third cop, shrugs all round. Then we are asked to give a description of the cop who told us to park where we parked: uniform like yours and shades Rayban Aviators I think just like his, we point at cop who had just walked in. They then invite us into a room with a framed photo on the wall of about 20 cops in uniform all wearing regulation shades. We study them, we look at each other and shrug, eeny meeny miney mo that one, they all shake their heads including us, he’s on leave. We walked into that police station laughing at the irony and determined we shouldn’t pay, and we walked out laughing although we had given in and paid up.

heini · Post by **heini** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:37 pm

The same thing happened to us at the parking lot at Alvor Beach. Michael, we didn't discover the little hole on the passenger's side until we did a thorough check. Luckily we didn't have anything valuablein the car, we always only take photocopies of our passports with us. We only noticed something was amiss, when I couldn't find my prescription glasses which I had exchanged for my sunglasses for the walk. The case should have been, as always, in the pocket of the passenger side door. The thieves took the glasses (a loss because the value was below our deductible) and the little pouch with the passport copies and a small paper note book out of the glove compartment but they left our camera behind, which they would have had to move out of the way to get at the other stuff.
However other than having to wait for the police staff to come back from lunch, I can only praise the officer(s) we dealt with at both police stations in Portimao. All were very helpful, friendly and spoke good English.

petermeachem · Post by **petermeachem** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 11:45 pm

Same happened to me in Odemira. I'd just bought the house and popped into Odemira to have lunch on the way home. They took my suitcase from the boot. The police showed me how easy it is to get into a Punto, just hit the door in the right place and the locks pop up. The police were terribly good, I was very short of time as I had a plane to catch that afernoon, so they just did a note for the insurance. I was amazed at the total cost when we added it all up. I asked if this was common. The police said 'no it nevers happens in Odemira, except we've had 4 today'.
What really upset me was that the previous owner of the house gave me the door key at the escritura, and I popped it in the case. There was nothing of any value to a thief in the case, unless they wanted dirty clothes and a carefully measured plan of the house.

Michael Crane · Post by **Michael Crane** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:42 am

We had a Punto! It's interesting to hear of the 'dart' method of entry - it seems a favourite way to do it!

We shall be hiring a car next week. We have been advised by CarJet to lock the doors but leave the glove compartment open (and empty!) and the back seat down to show that the boot is empty. Good advice - and advice I'll be taking!

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:05 pm

Michael--I sincerely hope the dart/punto method isnt being used in Seville (Where we're heading for!)----apparently car theft and jewellry snatching off your person is quite common there-----been told to only park in private carparks(these are guarded)and not to walk around wearing any "sparkers"!
Well-Im not into jewellry--so thats no worry----we're driving from UK--so we're going to have to be very careful regarding the car--i saw that you had your passport stolen Michael--d'you think it advisable that we carry ours on our person?
We always "split" our money as well --in case of theft!
Any other "wise-ups"Id be very grateful for

Michael Crane · Post by **Michael Crane** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:45 pm

I had my passport with me to change a traveller's cheque.

I also had my driving licence in the bag. I've had conflicting advice on this: One policeman told me to always have my licence, insurance and hire documents in the car; the policeman in the incident above said I was 'stupid' (his word!) to have them with me and that they should have been left in the safe back at the villa!

You lose some . . . you win none!!

btw, I had photocopies of my travel insurance, passport and driver's licence - always do; and they were in the safe!

maddi · Post by **maddi** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:33 pm

In any number of european countries and america for example it is apparently a requirement that foreign nationals carry their passports with them at all times. However in my experience not carrying them for all the reasons outlined above is usually accepted with good grace and knowing smile by most officials.

And in Turkey . . . when they stop you for speeding just saying "english I do not understand" normally seems them gruffly wave you away (just guessing that it must be very hard to negotiate a backhander when you don't share a language

)

Maddi

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:31 am

Given that in most countries, a passport is something that one must apply for, it is unlikely that one should be required to carry this at all times. Rather, in many European countries, it is necessary to carry an identity card with you. This may soon happen in Britain!

e-richard · Post by **e-richard** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:34 am

I think that the actual requirement is to carry some form of Photo ID. So the new style British Driving licenses with Photo seems the best solution all round. Why will we need an ID card as well ?

p.s. I am not opposed to ID cards. I think they're very useful, but one card for all purposes seems even better, despite the fear of big brother who may watch, but couldn't really care about me.

Michael Crane · Post by **Michael Crane** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:50 pm

I am 100% for ID cards. I am also in favour of the police having my fingerprints (which they have - but that's another story!), and my DNA.

I do not intend committing any crimes so such data being held by the authorities will be a means of eliminating me rather than incriminating me.

maddi · Post by **maddi** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:50 pm

If only it was all as simple as has been suggested, and I suppose that if you are as pure as the driven snow that you may have nothing to fear from ID cards but there are a few interesting facts that I shall put into the melting pot to enrich the discussion.

1. If you are a 18 year who gets into a fight outside the chippie one saturday night and the other person is 17 and you get caught (may be some of you have been this person without getting caught in the past) - you become (for life!!) a Schedule 1 Offender (used to identify Sex Offenders and Child abusers as this offence was the abuse of a child).

2. If you are a member of a Rugby team who all decide to do a moonie out of the back window of the coach and a passerby complains - that is gross indecency.

3. If you sneak down an alley or hop over a hedge into a field for a quick pee and get caught urinating in a public place - that is gross indecency.

4. If you are a man who is holding hands with another man in a public place, that is gross indecency.

Some very common events here and possibly one or more will feature in the pasts of most of us, get caught and have a record, visible for all to see, even if you have just been stopped having a brake light out and your ID card could read previous of Schedule 1 offences or gross indecency (oh and at that moment they have just put out an alert on a child molester operating in your area - guess who will be picked up).

Something to ponder . . .

Maddi

Note. The above is based on UK law