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88 golf courses possibilty!!!
88 golf courses possibilty!!!
What an interesting article in this weeks Resident.... it says that the Algarve should build max 41 golf courses by 2020 (approx 150 km of coastline divided by 41 = 1 every 3.65 km) but wait it gets better ..."if applications continue to be accepted at the present rate" then we would have 88 golf courses from the present 29. (150 km divided by 88 = 1 x 1.70 km!)
Why not just build one continuous golf course, more cost effective surely.
In another article it also tells us about more development in Silves with 5 golf courses planned and six luxury hotels.
Well i hope someone knows what they are doing...because to me it beggars belief!
Why not just build one continuous golf course, more cost effective surely.
In another article it also tells us about more development in Silves with 5 golf courses planned and six luxury hotels.
Well i hope someone knows what they are doing...because to me it beggars belief!
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Guest
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dejavu
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Guest
Martin - do you by any chance work for the Daily Mail, because they would be proud of your figures - why the assumption that all golf courses will be built on the coastline? - Most are not, and I would think that it is unlikely that any more will be given the prime value of coastal properties.
There are fourteen golf courses within 15 minutes drive of where I live in Surrey - would you say that was a problem? - no one has ever suggested that it is.
The free world is based on demand and supply - getting a morning tee time on Pinta in anything close to peak season requires booking several days in advance (and several weeks in advance for more famous courses), so it would seem that the demand is still strong.
Golf is economically good for the Algarve and Portugal as a whole, and is a vital part of the tourism and economy of the Country.
We will of course now get the environmentalist argument, but has anyone who makes these points actually visited the Pestana courses and seen their environmental policies (easy to spot - they are celearly written on a large board by the clubhouse), and also noticed the number of awards they have received for their 'green' policies.
Many people enjoy the relaxation that a game of golf creates. It is a fact. Live with it.
Graham
PS By your maths, there should currently be a golf for every 5 kilometres of coastline - to my knowledge the nearest course on the coast is Salgados, some 30 kilometres away, or am I missing something?
There are fourteen golf courses within 15 minutes drive of where I live in Surrey - would you say that was a problem? - no one has ever suggested that it is.
The free world is based on demand and supply - getting a morning tee time on Pinta in anything close to peak season requires booking several days in advance (and several weeks in advance for more famous courses), so it would seem that the demand is still strong.
Golf is economically good for the Algarve and Portugal as a whole, and is a vital part of the tourism and economy of the Country.
We will of course now get the environmentalist argument, but has anyone who makes these points actually visited the Pestana courses and seen their environmental policies (easy to spot - they are celearly written on a large board by the clubhouse), and also noticed the number of awards they have received for their 'green' policies.
Many people enjoy the relaxation that a game of golf creates. It is a fact. Live with it.
Graham
PS By your maths, there should currently be a golf for every 5 kilometres of coastline - to my knowledge the nearest course on the coast is Salgados, some 30 kilometres away, or am I missing something?
I didn't feel it was worth commenting on the previous Golf debates but the attack on Martin has compelled me to say something.
I am guessing that there are many people who use this forum who enjoy Golf and enjoy the almost year round 'warm' golf opportunities that the Algarve affords the keen player.
It is my belief that the construction of golf courses in the Algarve and the construction of the villas and apartments that go with them, and then the visits not just by the golfers but also by their families who between them spend copious amounts of money has had in the main a positive impact on this area of Portugal providing a living across the hospitality industry for many ten of thousands of portugese.
I personally do worry about the environmental impact and think it is a shame that all golf courses in the Algarve reflect 'a walk in the english countryside" rather than the local environs. Some countries have wonderful golf courses that reflect the landscape, climate, etc which is prevalent in that country and provides something different, interesting and challenging for the visiting golfer.
Graham you are right when you say that getting a tee off in the peak season requires booking ahead but lets face it most golfers are intelligent, often business professionals who can forecast profit and loss over a five year strategic development operation, booking a tee off time should not be a problem.
Finally, the golf industry has so far brought more positives than negatives to the Algarve but I think that the point that Martin was making as much as anything is that at some point the law of diminishing returns will kick in and can the area, its culture, its'climate, its watertable, its character sustain many more golf courses than are there now - particularly if they are all going to look like a walk through England's green and pleasant land.
Maddi
I am guessing that there are many people who use this forum who enjoy Golf and enjoy the almost year round 'warm' golf opportunities that the Algarve affords the keen player.
It is my belief that the construction of golf courses in the Algarve and the construction of the villas and apartments that go with them, and then the visits not just by the golfers but also by their families who between them spend copious amounts of money has had in the main a positive impact on this area of Portugal providing a living across the hospitality industry for many ten of thousands of portugese.
I personally do worry about the environmental impact and think it is a shame that all golf courses in the Algarve reflect 'a walk in the english countryside" rather than the local environs. Some countries have wonderful golf courses that reflect the landscape, climate, etc which is prevalent in that country and provides something different, interesting and challenging for the visiting golfer.
Graham you are right when you say that getting a tee off in the peak season requires booking ahead but lets face it most golfers are intelligent, often business professionals who can forecast profit and loss over a five year strategic development operation, booking a tee off time should not be a problem.
Finally, the golf industry has so far brought more positives than negatives to the Algarve but I think that the point that Martin was making as much as anything is that at some point the law of diminishing returns will kick in and can the area, its culture, its'climate, its watertable, its character sustain many more golf courses than are there now - particularly if they are all going to look like a walk through England's green and pleasant land.
Maddi
Last edited by maddi on Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sadly those who think it will all be solved by supply and demand better think again.
i am afraid there is a bigger picture to consider than simply the commercial demands of those who just play golf.....there are many of us who dont play, and also we do not want to see the Algarve turned into some glorified version of "westworld".
Regarding the arguements about golf and water etc .... they have been already well aired...the point of todays "Resident" is that there appears to be no end to the development of these play areas.
As for the comment about the nearest golf course being 30 kms away Graham, this tells me you know nothing about local geography....perhaps on your next trip out, you may care to leave your local golf course and explore.
To my knowledge, we have two courses in portimao, two in carvoiero,a new one just north of Portimao, one near a de pera. one in alburfeira....thats all well within your 30 Km zone! plus of course the planned five as announced under silves camara
i am afraid there is a bigger picture to consider than simply the commercial demands of those who just play golf.....there are many of us who dont play, and also we do not want to see the Algarve turned into some glorified version of "westworld".
Regarding the arguements about golf and water etc .... they have been already well aired...the point of todays "Resident" is that there appears to be no end to the development of these play areas.
As for the comment about the nearest golf course being 30 kms away Graham, this tells me you know nothing about local geography....perhaps on your next trip out, you may care to leave your local golf course and explore.
To my knowledge, we have two courses in portimao, two in carvoiero,a new one just north of Portimao, one near a de pera. one in alburfeira....thats all well within your 30 Km zone! plus of course the planned five as announced under silves camara
Sorry Martin, but my geography is not suspect. You were comparing number of courses to available coastal mileage, and therefore none of the inland course you have mentioned are relevant.
If you had compared number of golf courses to square miles in the Algarve then a) the courses you list are relevant and b) the figures will not look quite so convincing in your argument. (one golf course per approx 150sq. miles I think is the figure)
Maddi - I hate to disagree with you on this one, but I think you will find that Pinta is acclaimed for it's sympathetic design with the environment - lots of wild scrub, fig and almond trees (amongst others - not very good on trees), and the same is true of Salgados using the natural water to create a course with a very diverse range of flaura and fauna. Gramacho is, undoubtedly, a bit out of keeping but it not everything is perfect!
I made the point about tee off times not to moan about how far in advance you have to book but to demonstrate that demand is still higher than availability, and is likely to increase, hence the investors view that more courses are sustainable.
Graham
If you had compared number of golf courses to square miles in the Algarve then a) the courses you list are relevant and b) the figures will not look quite so convincing in your argument. (one golf course per approx 150sq. miles I think is the figure)
Maddi - I hate to disagree with you on this one, but I think you will find that Pinta is acclaimed for it's sympathetic design with the environment - lots of wild scrub, fig and almond trees (amongst others - not very good on trees), and the same is true of Salgados using the natural water to create a course with a very diverse range of flaura and fauna. Gramacho is, undoubtedly, a bit out of keeping but it not everything is perfect!
I made the point about tee off times not to moan about how far in advance you have to book but to demonstrate that demand is still higher than availability, and is likely to increase, hence the investors view that more courses are sustainable.
Graham
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Guest
Graham,
Thanks for laying it out plain and simple. I'm afraid alot of this golf course bashing is not necessarily with the better interests of the environment, but a typical reaction of the "watermelon " brigade parading as environmentalists.
Tiny
Thanks for laying it out plain and simple. I'm afraid alot of this golf course bashing is not necessarily with the better interests of the environment, but a typical reaction of the "watermelon " brigade parading as environmentalists.
Watermelons are "green" on the outside and "red" in the middle. Fresh ones, that is.Guest
Show me the people who can just go out and buy golf clubs costing a fortune and all rushing for club membership
Think the only people interested would be property developers, lawyers and councillors with large pockets
p.s. I enjoy watching golf...........played by professionals
Tiny
Maddi,
What I can be sure is I am not talking about myself.
I consider myself a pretty reasonable person when it comes to the environment. I recycle paper, glass, aluminum, cardboard, batterys, utilize cloths as much as possible before I put them through the laundry, turn off lights when not in use, use a Smart car (one of the most fuel efficient cars, and cleanest), would love to use public transport more in UK (alas its so disjointed and unreliable, and really expensive) and would.
But I must look at what it is radical environmentalists with their tirade and emotive phlegm being spewed out at golf courses when they, these eco warriors, do not offer scientific evidence to prove their case. Because of their vorocity of unclaimed "truths" the golf course industry decided to get pro-active and initiate research concerning those all things concerning the eco/no-growth warriors (besides their obvious leanings to the hard left). Research was initiated at major universities in the USA in the early 90's and is still ongoing, but to date the research proves, scientifically and without bias, that golf is not nocive to the environment.
I don't know, you tell me?Tiny Tim
I assume you are not talking about me.
Maddi
What I can be sure is I am not talking about myself.
I consider myself a pretty reasonable person when it comes to the environment. I recycle paper, glass, aluminum, cardboard, batterys, utilize cloths as much as possible before I put them through the laundry, turn off lights when not in use, use a Smart car (one of the most fuel efficient cars, and cleanest), would love to use public transport more in UK (alas its so disjointed and unreliable, and really expensive) and would.
But I must look at what it is radical environmentalists with their tirade and emotive phlegm being spewed out at golf courses when they, these eco warriors, do not offer scientific evidence to prove their case. Because of their vorocity of unclaimed "truths" the golf course industry decided to get pro-active and initiate research concerning those all things concerning the eco/no-growth warriors (besides their obvious leanings to the hard left). Research was initiated at major universities in the USA in the early 90's and is still ongoing, but to date the research proves, scientifically and without bias, that golf is not nocive to the environment.
Maddi, what is the "environmental impact"? Have you ever sat down and really researched what this I suppose negative impact is, and on the flipside what impact golf does "good" for the environment? And as far as golf being a walk in the English countryside, golf adapts itself to whatever landscape it is played in. Why isn't the Algarve part of what you describe as "some countries have wonderful golf courses that reflect the landscape, climate which is prevalent in that country, and provides something different, interesting...". Why not Algarve?, but let's say Myrtle Beach SC, Scottsdale AZ, Mexico City, Lisbon Portugal.......anywhere!!???? Looks like Algarvian golf provides exactly what you mention, something unique and challenging in its own unique environment.I personally do worry about the environmental impact and think it is a shame that all golf courses in the Algarve reflect 'a walk in the english countryside" rather than the local environs. Some countries have wonderful golf courses that reflect the landscape, climate, etc which is prevalent in that country and provides something different, interesting and challenging for the visiting golfer.
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Guest