I am back. I started a new topic only for the reason I find it a nuisance to go to the end of the replies in a long topic.

Now not to upset anyone, I read the original topic very carefully and found the I want to play the Devil's Advocate. I may be wrong in my understanding the facts but as I do not have the Police Report in front of me I have serious thoughts as to whether many ( I didn't say everyone) has already found the motorcycle driver guilty.

From what I see the young man was driving up the hill at a speed that no one has determined. It can be said fast, but all motorcycles appear to be driving fast.

Next the lady who stepped out in front of him; was she at a crosswalk? did she look out before she crossed into the street? didn't she hear him coming up the street? Was she the one who caused the accident?

I agree this accident was a tragedy, but although everyone has put forth their comments and recommendations. are they only between ourselves? Did anyone complain to the local council about the parking problem? How many of us have parked on the sidewalk and that includes me too.

To summarize my thoughts, the young man should get a good lawyer.

You shouldn't hear from me soon as spring is almost here in Canada and I will not need to entertain myself by reading this wonderful forum.

well you are correct that we do not know all the facts, although some have seen the mototcylist going very quickly in the past...the very fact that he was on a high powered motorbike indicates that he bought it for acceleration and speed.

I am afraid I have seen many motorbikers going very fast...the worst time is when they have their annual bike fest in faro....driving to and from lisbon the same time was an education - they seem incapable of waiting behind any car but MUST overtake irrespective of who is coming towards them...believe me when I tell you that I could have killed twenty or so on the journeys..and that is no exageration

I posted this in Chit Chat

I am rather a fan of due process so wouldn't go as far as blaming anyone (including the motorbike rider) until the evidence has been gathered, the witness statements sworn in, etc - I am funny like that - must be the criminal justice system job

Which is why I haven't given an opinion in the main thread and am not about to now either.

Maddi

http://portugalresident.com/portugalres ... p?ID=12637

Updated: 13 April 2006

Black weekend on Algarve’s roads

CARVOEIRO: Motorcyclist kills pedestrian on zebra crossing

A MOTORCYCLIST, travelling at high speed through the village of Carvoeiro last Saturday night, failed to stop at a zebra crossing on Estrada do Farol, causing the death of one pedestrian and serious injuries to two others.

Carlos Geou, a restaurant owner who spoke to Correio da Manhã newspaper at the scene, said the bike was travelling at great speed: “First, he collided with a foreign woman who was on the pavement, afterwards he hit two Portuguese women who had begun crossing the road. One was thrown against a parked car and died, the other was dragged along by the bike and suffered serious facial injuries. The motorbike was in two pieces and the driver lay on the ground.” Werner Schmidt, a German tourist, told a similar story: “I saw a motorbike travelling at high speed, first it hit one woman and, a second later, two more people were run down.”

Apparently, many members of the public witnessed the accident and, according to Carlos Geou, “some people fainted and others felt unwell”.
Of the two Portuguese women hit on the zebra crossing, one, aged 42, died at the scene, the other is being treated at Hospital de São José in Lisbon, where

CARVOEIRO: Motorcyclist kills pedestrian
on zebra crossing continued she lives. The third victim, a 57-year-old German woman, has been receiving treatment at the Barlavento Hospital in Portimão.
The motorcyclist, aged 23 and a resident of Carvoeiro, was immediately taken to hospital but has already been allowed to return home, suffering only minor injuries. According to his family, he doesn’t remember anything about the accident. The GNR are investigating the cause of the accident.

Three victims in five years
Estrada do Farol, which links the centre of Carvoeiro to the Vale de Centeanes area, is home to many tourist hotels and has been the location for various serious accidents.
“In five years, I have already witnessed three people die at the same spot where this latest tragedy took place (the zebra crossing before the turn to Algar Seco). It is a disgrace that nobody does anything. It is necessary to place speed bumps or other deterrents, in order to force drivers to reduce their speed,” said the restaurant owner.
Road safety is clearly an issue that requires attention in the area. There are many restaurants and bars located along Estrada do Farol and a lot of traffic, especially at night. Cars park on the pavement and force pedestrians to walk on the road.

I dont understand why this thread has been started when there is already a topic here about this terrible accident?

I suppose so.

But anyway my thought is that young people have no idea how quickly accidents happen and lives change, sometimes irrevocably and tragically.

It is that notion that I wish could be taught to them at early ages in a way that they will "get" so that they can use things more responsibly.

Parents play an important part but in cases where the parent, for whatever reason, is unable to teach effectively, the community must be involved somehow before it turns into a criminal justice issue and/or high cost issue for all concerned.

The police are not really in a position to effectively teach such notions to many people IMO. They could be a conduit provided there is a means of compelling young people into the program.

Anonymous wrote: But anyway my thought is that young people have no idea how quickly accidents happen and lives change, sometimes irrevocably and tragically.

Hello...they are young and inexperienced...what else would you expect?

It is that notion that I wish could be taught to them at early ages in a way that they will "get" so that they can use things more responsibly

That is a lesson that seems to be learned only after the fact.

Parents play an important part but in cases where the parent, for whatever reason, is unable to teach effectively, the community must be involved somehow before it turns into a criminal justice issue and/or high cost issue for all concerned.

Here is where we have a problem.....how exactly does the community modify the impetuous youth's behavior on a legal vehicle opperated on public streets when his parents can't?
(saying "He's going to have a bad accident some day" didn't seem to help.....and it seems that everyone in town knew who this kid was, and knew that he was going to have a accident some day)

Reckess operation of a moter vehicle on a public street is a police matter (acting for the better good, and in the name of, the community).

The police are not really in a position to effectively teach such notions to many people IMO

.
IMO they sure as hell are! They just don't do it it seems.

They could be a conduit provided there is a means of compelling young people into the program.

What program?

The police can issue tickets and fines....and revoke the licence of the repeat offender if need be.

Why is that such a difficult concept in Portugal?

I agree with cowboy on this, the rider was well known for his speeding about town & yet the police did nothing to stop him, there is another bloke who bombs around on a quad bike he speeds up restaurant hill doing wheelies, we were driving back into town one day from the direction of Centiannes beach & he overtook us a great speed on a bend & proceeded to do wheelies all the way into town. Why don't the police stop him?

Mr. G wrote:

The cops in Carvoeiro and around other Portuguese towns often don't even have enough fuel to run their patrol cars for a whole month and need to resort to their own private vehicles to move around. The also do not posess a radar device and have to rely on the traffic brigade to find their way into town to preform speed control.

I am not sure what to say about the accident, except that is doesn't surprise me. Most Portuguese seem hell bent on trying to kill themselves and anyone else in their way on the roads. Maybe it is the only time a lot of them feel powerful and "in control" of something. I still can't work out what happens to most of them the minute they get on the road and I probably never will. I sometimes see young guys on the motorway doing wheelies on off road bikes in the outside lane.

I would imagine killing someone on a crossing gets manslaughter in most countries.

But I would agree that the police are very under funded and under resourced. I called the local police out in the night once because there was a robbery taking place in the house opposite me. The police arrived quite quickly but unfortunately just missed the thieves. The "funniest" thing was that they wound down their windows and asked me if I had something, which could get their car doors open because they were stuck. I didn't, so they had to climb out the windows like Starskey & Hutch (although they didn't look quite so cool). They told me their vehicles were old and badly maintained, as there was no money to maintain them.

My husband knows the driver of the bike and says that he's a really pleasant, well spoken, polite young man but as soon as he gets on his bike a red mist descends. He apparently boasts that he can get round Carvoeiro at 200 km per hour so it's hardly surprising he was unable to stop at the crossing. It just makes me angry that he's caused all this carnage and he gets away with a few minor injuries, but that seems to always be the way. He says he can't remember anything - how convenient. This will continue to happen until a traffic calming system is introduced.

Just back from a 5 day break weather fantastic apart from good friday when it rained for most of the day.
We were discussing this accident and Portuguese dribving style in general and came up with the following theory.
For most of the last century Portugal was a virtual dictatorship with little scope for individuals to express the themselves with most aspects of life strictly controlled.
However when in a car NO ONE could tell you what to do and we think that this " rebellious " approach has now become part of the national physcie.

I've also heard that said about the Pt. women, who are for the most part downtrodden in general life. In a car they are equally as aggressive, as it is their chance to finally be in control.