landlord's neglect keeps by business closed

[Joanne53]

I have restaurant/bar in Lagoa area. Because of landlord's neglect of property and water leakage from landlords apartment above which has perished the cement (concrete cancer) causing constant plaster falling from the ceiling in restaurant kitchen. Years of being ignored by landlord, including solicitor's letters, the problem is now desperate. I am closed because the rooms are 'not fit for purpose', and I have to keep paying rent for something I cannot use.
I have emailed the Camera in Lagoa but have not had a reply. I read on the internet there is a government department in every area town hall to force repairs on neglected property, which has been set up because of the new laws of New Urban Lease Reforms.
I have to live in England because I cannot run my business and have no money for expensive solicitors letters backwards and forwards for the next several months, getting nowhere.
It is the law that landlord's are responsible for the fabric of their buildings, BUT TRY TO GET IT IMPLIMENTED!!!
I have a surveyor's report saying that the water infiltration is coming from the above property, and it is not advisable to open the doors of the business.
Where do I go from here? Can anyone help? Do you know of a department in the Camara anyone?
Joanne

[martin]

in an earlier posting you said the bar was a trepasse?

if this is the case is it not different from freehold?

of course I do not know all the facts but is the value of what you paid in 1986 worth sorting the problem out? or better just to walk away?

[Joanne53]

Buying a tresspasse was to buy the equivalent of what was in England a 999year lease, and at the time I bought it could have bought a 2 bedroom apartment or good piece of land. Yes it would seem easy to walk away but that is the only thing I own, ok not the building but the business, and if you rent a pub in England would be worth quite a lot of money. However, what I am pointing out, and asking for help is that even though the law on tresspasse has changed, there is still such a thing as the law. The person who is the landlord would be happy to see me go, as the business would revert back to them. (They used to run and own this, sold it and made money) Allowing dereliction means that a lucrative piece of land would then be able to be sold. Water seepage has gone on since mid 1990's and I have letters from a solicitor as far back as 2001 stating the landlord's responsibility. Yes, I could have walked away years ago, but if this were your home or livelihood, WOULD YOU? I would state that what is going on is against the law. I thank you for your interest. Joanne

[Polli62]

Joanne could the Camara not do anything for you, saying that, I know it's a long shot. Its disgraceful that the landlord is being disrespectful in not maintaining the property he owns and causing you grief, as you say maybe he is trying to drive you out and then you will have nothing and he will have his property back for nowt. Keep fighting.

[martin]

perhaps others may advise other ways, personally I think emailing the Lagoa camara is waste of time, perhaps you will have to appear in person at Lagoa camara or the only other way is to employ a lawyer or seek advice from AFPOP

I do not think there is a magic wand sad to say that does not involve legal proceedings, you may well be right in your case but I wonder how long it would take to resolve this matter?

[TCSltd]

Are you paying him ground rent? If so stop and tell him that you will recommence when repairs are completed.

Get a builder to quote for the repair and incorporate some damp protection.

Find the water supply for his upstairs apartment and get it turned off. Hopefully a pipe will be on your part of the property.

That should put some tension in his life!!

[Joanne53]

Re: Landlord's neglect keeps my business closed.
Thank you people for your time, you are very kind.
Answers to solutions.
I am between a rock and a hard place, as I cannot stop paying the rent as if no rent is received for three months, the Landlord can take the business back. The law seems to protect the unlawful and as usual leaves the persecuted unprotected.
I cannot turn the water off as the water infiltration is coming from rainfall leaking in from blocked escape holes and broken roof terraces, damaged pipes to take away rainwater then allows seepage through the side of the building with loss of cement and concrete, allow water through broken bricks. I have to be careful what I say here as one has to work out accident v design, and lack of repairs, (none since I moved in 26 years ago) deterioration and cancer rot are difficult and expensive to combat, especially when I cannot get into the above rooms to stop the water infiltration, because the apartment (derelict and empty) belongs to the landlord.
I agree, emails to the Camara have produced nothing, and a solicitor has told me it will cost so much money and take many years, that the advice is to forget it.
Everyone agrees the law is on my side and that the landlord's actions, and lack of action are illegal, but one day I fear the upstairs will crumble into the downstairs, and no insurance on earth will pay out for neglect. The Camara do not seem to know of the new laws demanding landlord responsibility and I am telling them, (by phone) and anyone interested to Google Portuguese Civil law and also the Urban Tenancy Regime for Commercial and Industrial Purposes or just Google NRAU. The law is clear, but try implementing it.
Joanne

[Farol]

I can't see how you can avoid legal action on a matter like this, regretable and costly though it is.

If you are a member of AFPOP I would ask them if one of their members or contacts might be able to help with a way forward. If you are not a member it might be worth joining if it would help you to resolve this. http://www.afpop.com

I don't know if there is an equivalent to the Citizens Advice Bureau in Portugal but it would be worth you making some enquiries to find out. The Portuguese Embassy in London would be a good place to start asking.

[Polli62]

Surely this is an important health and safety issue for you & your customers, and why don't the Camara act on your behalf to the landlord to get these repairs sorted. I had a friend who owns a bar, not in Carvoeiro (In St Eulalia, Albufeira) and because of noise issues on property above his bar they made him install extra insulation, and he was made to do it or he would be closed. Surely, I would think water penetration is a more important issue for safety matters. Maybe the best way is get advice from afpop recommended by the previous poster. Hope you do get closure to this problem with a positive outcome.Good luck.

[James Faro]

Hi Joanne

This must be very frustrating and annoying to you to say the least.

If you are paying rent then you are at an advantage and I would bring matters to a head.

I would get three estimates for the work to be carried out. Then I would choose the estimate that seems the most reasonable in terms of works entailed and not just costs.

Then, I would deduct the costs of the works as a proportion from the monthly rent. Depending of the costs entailed I would deduct it over a year's rent or maybe longer. With this you have to ensure all your calculations are clearly explained and written down,

What will the landlord do? Will he threaten court? That would be for him counter-productive as he has failed in his duties as a landlord and he has also caused you to suffer economic loss. Often in law, business loss is far more potent and serious than a neighbourly inconvenience court action.

From what I have read from your posting here, you have at all times acted reasonably - the landord's actions or inaction is a clear case of unreasonableness. What he has done or not done has lead you to take this action as there was no other course of action open to you.

Technically you are in breach of contract if you deduct a proportion off the monthly rent, but that is negated when you have had to take on his duties as he has neglected them.

The mere fact that he has not responded means that he may have money problems and cannot afford the repairs; in that case more power to you!

- James

[pato]

Hi Joanne

This must be very frustrating and annoying to you to say the least.

If you are paying rent then you are at an advantage and I would bring matters to a head.

I would get three estimates for the work to be carried out. Then I would choose the estimate that seems the most reasonable in terms of works entailed and not just costs.

Then, I would deduct the costs of the works as a proportion from the monthly rent. Depending of the costs entailed I would deduct it over a year's rent or maybe longer. With this you have to ensure all your calculations are clearly explained and written down,

What will the landlord do? Will he threaten court? That would be for him counter-productive as he has failed in his duties as a landlord and he has also caused you to suffer economic loss. Often in law, business loss is far more potent and serious than a neighbourly inconvenience court action.

From what I have read from your posting here, you have at all times acted reasonably - the landord's actions or inaction is a clear case of unreasonableness. What he has done or not done has lead you to take this action as there was no other course of action open to you.

Technically you are in breach of contract if you deduct a proportion off the monthly rent, but that is negated when you have had to take on his duties as he has neglected them.

The mere fact that he has not responded means that he may have money problems and cannot afford the repairs; in that case more power to you!

- James

Also take into account the Health and Safety aspect, is it as active in Portugal as it is in the UK? If it is, it's a great tact to make and get them involved, Hygiene, safety of employees and customers and all that guff, and how concerned you are goes down well. Good luck.

[R.Wethereyet]

Joanne,

Have sent you a PM

[R.Wethereyet]

Joanne,

The law in Portugal is clear, it stipulates that if a property is in poor condition, a tenant can demand that the landlord make repairs.

If the owner fails to do so, the tenant may acquire the property at the officially estimated value, on condition that they undertake the repairs.

If the repair work is not completed after a specified period of time, however, the property will be returned to the original owner.

Whilst you may not be in a position to do this, a 'Shot across the bows' letter to him saying you are going to proceed with this action may spur him into doing something.

[Joanne53]

Thank you to the people who replied the Landlord neglect keeps my business closed, you have been very supportive.
I have spoken to a lawyer, and oh if it were only England I would have a clear strong cut case, and get results almost immediately, however .......
Upshot is, as I already knew, the law is on my side, but it will be very costly to employ a solicitor to take on a landlord who for years, has ignored solicitor's letters. I have to keep paying rent because if I do not, the business will be taken by the landlord if more than 3 months rent is not paid.
I cannot take a long time over getting a solicitor to once again try to enforce action, (nor the money), at 312 euros a month rent, and no way of earning money, my situation is getting desperate.
I like the idea James came up with, to get 3 quotes, and then to deduct the main repair over a period of time, that way I will not have rent arrears. If I can get the ceiling temporarily repaired, enough to comply for Health and Safety, and then get open, I would then hopefully then have the finances to take matters further.
It is obvious to anyone who has seen the photographic evidence taken over a period of several years, (which will be used for legal proceedings) that I can only patch things up for a short time, as things need to be addressed from the empty apartment above, which belongs to the landlord.
I too think a shot across the bows is needed, because if she (landlord) gets rattled and takes ME to court, it will be far less expensive.
When everything gets resolved I would like to invite you all around for drinks, but in the meantime
KEEP YOUR IDEA COMING THROUGH, I really appreciate it. Love to you all for Christmas and the New Year. Joanne

[Farol]

Try to get an appointment with the mayor (or whatever title they go by). They are elected and I am sure would not welcome bad publicity either naming him or his authority for not taking action to enforce the law. Get a meeting with him and tell him how useless his staff have been and ask him what he personally will do to help resolve the situation. But don't just turn up at the council offices and ask to see him - schedule it as you would schedule any other formal/business meeting. Then after the meeting inform the Alagrve News and The Resident of your problem, the meeting and the outcome of the meeting - if things are as bad as you say they might run an article with photos which would put added pressure on both the council and the landlord.