Solar panel schemes ?

shaz1967 · Post by **shaz1967** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:46 am

Hello fellow memebers
We were wondering if the Government/energy suppliers do any incentive schemes in Portugal for the solar panel system? We knew that they used to do a scheme similar to the one in the UK but having being unable to find anything online i am wondering if it has stopped due to the cut backs etc. We are thinking about installing at the least a hot water solar system&maybe a system to generate electricity as well.

maccasa · Post by **maccasa** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:10 am

There are no support schemes for hot water panels - A standard 2 panel system for a 3/4 bed villa is €2500 - 3500. Solar panels for electricity used to have a subsidy but not now. The probable was (is) there is so much sun in Portugal there would be too much generated and it is impossible to store it.

shaz1967 · Post by **shaz1967** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:30 pm

maccasa wrote:There are no support schemes for hot water panels - A standard 2 panel system for a 3/4 bed villa is €2500 - 3500. Solar panels for electricity used to have a subsidy but not now. The probable was (is) there is so much sun in Portugal there would be too much generated and it is impossible to store it.

Thanks

mcmuller · Post by **mcmuller** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:00 pm

There are incentive schemes for photovoltaic systems in Portugal. Look at https://energia.edp.pt/particulares/ser ... nergy.aspx for example. Or, as we did, google for "aljezur solar" - and at first hit you will find all info you need. There also was a promotion-truck from edp on the carvoeiro-square yesterday, I think. You can have a look at our plant here: https://www.sunnyportal.com/Templates/P ... 2d2b096fe0

Greetings,
mcmuller

maccasa · Post by **maccasa** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:03 am

wow - this is new - its about time they started - but are these offering any government subsidies?

maccasa · Post by **maccasa** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:31 am

I have checked out these sites - both EDP. The last one shows an 11Kw output installation and a stated break - even point at 7-8 yrs. That installation must be over 40 panels given the standard 250 w/panel output (in UK) so renders it impractical for any normal sized house/villa in PT. In UK I have 16 panels on a south(ish) facing roof giving a max of 4kWh and my pay-back is under 5 yrs. I get 16p/kWh paid back by FITS (feed-in-tariff-system) and as a result my total energy bill last year was ~£320 which is the gas central heating in winter, as I use my panels for hot water as well as normal consumption. With the amount of sunlight in Portugal being 3x that of UK, my installation would be producing way over my consumption and theoretically we would be getting completely paid-for electric and a separate payment. Clearly that cant be happening with the EDP installations shown and it sounds a rip-off!

RichardHenshall · Post by **RichardHenshall** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:22 am

Since the feed-in tariff system really only benefits the producer of the electricity (and ultimately costs every other consumer), my understanding is that Portugal is now trying to encourage production for self-consumption, rather than over-production. If you generate say 500W-1500W it's likely that you will use the majority in-house, thus cutting your electricity bill on a virtually 1:1 basis. While you don't get paid to produce you possibly save 100% of your production at your normal daytime rate (ours is ~€0.2325).

mcmuller · Post by **mcmuller** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:36 pm

@macccasa: the 11Kw plant shown is on-grid since 2012. Payback per kWh is 21ct, for 15 Years. After that, consumation price equals selling price. EDP-payback was around 4000,-€ a Year, more than double the amount of energy consumed in the attached villa. By the way, it's not an EDP-Installation! EDP is obliged by law to buy the energy produced (2012 legislation!, channged heavily in 2014). To estimate production in Europe, you can look at http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/ ... map=europe
UK looks like 950kWh/kWp per Year, Algarve is 1700kWh/kWp per Year. So, with 950kWh/kWp * 4kWh * 16p you get around 600Pounds per Year. Your turnaround in 5yrs. assumes total costs of 3040 Pounds for the whole installation of a 4kWh-plant.... where to buy such cheap panels and inverters??

PM me, if you wanna get into details

shaz1967 · Post by **shaz1967** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:51 am

It does seem very strange that they are not publicising the fact that there are grants to be had if they have a policy to go green to meet certain European criteria? I must admit it is all a little confusing! I had 16 solar panels fitted on my Uk home last year & the feed in tariff is 17p. Surely there would be quite a few people to take up the offer in a country that has so much sunlight? It does ask the question as to why any business minded people have not jumped on this.

mcmuller · Post by **mcmuller** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:00 pm

@shaz1967: regarding buisness models, there are certain restrictions to make shure it remains personal/private production, bonded to a consumer. EDP is publicing their own solar-systems quite aggressivly: They even had a promo-truck (one out of 20) in carvoeiro-square last week! EDP offers an all-in-one solution, even with financing. ...but there are alternatives. For a brief explanation of current criteria (in english), look at ffsolar webpage.

John Burgess · Post by **John Burgess** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:25 pm

Has anyone actually fitted solar panels I see them all over the Uk Portugal must be much sunnier and if you only live at your Portugal home for 6 months surely the other 6 months would be selling to the grid. If anyone wants Pm me with any details please feel free

maccasa · Post by **maccasa** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:22 am

As has been discussed above - what do you (they) do with the excess energy generated during the day? or in many cases as yours when the villa isn't occupied for several months of the year. It's very difficult to store electricity unless you use a system like that at Dinorwig (?) in N Wales where they pump water up a mountain into a manmade lake during the night using unwanted energy (power stations on low output standby mode) then they let it go back down the mountain into a hydroelectric generating system when it's required at peak times. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station. I suppose they could do that in CVO - one on the top by Solfeiras and another on Monte Dourado

In USA where they have a similar problem in CA and FL, there are systems rather like very large batteries (size of a house!) which they use for this purpose, but I haven't heard how successful they are and what the payback is as the installation cost is very high.

widge · Post by **widge** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:47 am

Excess heat generated from solar panels can be stored as hot water or as in my case hot concrete, a bit like an old fashioned night storage heater. This is my underfloor heat store under construction in 1998.

: heat store 1.jpg (157.99 KiB) Viewed 13019 times

maccasa · Post by **maccasa** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:44 am

Hot water is fine all the year round - you get that with 2 standard panels which cost ~€2500, but what's the point of having heat storage in the summer - fine in colder months but from mar - nov is there any point

widge · Post by **widge** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:28 am

You use it to heat your water.

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