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NEW DEVELOPMENTS GOOD NEWS ??
notary what you say is true, but it is also in the nature of developers not to police themselves. They would, given half a chance, turn the Algarve into one big 'Stepford'.
If Denniscash keeps this up then my defence system, ie my foot, will connect with his brain system which I'm sure is located in his pants
If Denniscash keeps this up then my defence system, ie my foot, will connect with his brain system which I'm sure is located in his pants
GUEST,
No development!!! Dream on.
150, 000. yes 150, 000. brits purchased some type of overseas property last year.
The weekend papers are full of adds .
Don,t think that there are undiscovered pockets where the common herd won,t finally end up.
Easy Jet, Ryan air et al will see to that.
Where after the Algarve, Porto and surrounding areas.
Face up to the facts, its happening and I am afraid that those with Ostrich like atitudes ( heads in the sand ) will be rudely awakened when the bulldozer runs over them from behind.
AS other like Bruxinha have said " apathy " rules " and not just among the local inhabitants.
This is perhaps best confirmed by not the number of responses to my original point but by the limited number of contributors.
FOR or AGAINST it seems that there are only a few of us who are actually concerned or giving any thought to the matter.
No development!!! Dream on.
150, 000. yes 150, 000. brits purchased some type of overseas property last year.
The weekend papers are full of adds .
Don,t think that there are undiscovered pockets where the common herd won,t finally end up.
Easy Jet, Ryan air et al will see to that.
Where after the Algarve, Porto and surrounding areas.
Face up to the facts, its happening and I am afraid that those with Ostrich like atitudes ( heads in the sand ) will be rudely awakened when the bulldozer runs over them from behind.
AS other like Bruxinha have said " apathy " rules " and not just among the local inhabitants.
This is perhaps best confirmed by not the number of responses to my original point but by the limited number of contributors.
FOR or AGAINST it seems that there are only a few of us who are actually concerned or giving any thought to the matter.
-
nightrider
P E R S I S T E N T ---- A R E......T H E Y................N O T........
Hi Notary,
You put your point as you see it and this has to be respected. But having personal knowledge, I am afraid and trust you will forgive me, somewhat naive. By way of example (and there are so many now) today's posting on the General Forum, re: Plug Pull etc (Quote Times).
Hi Blue,
You will recall our discussion on ferries and the Bay of Biscay, the latter I advised could "toss" you about, well as you can a see lot of "tossing" is also going on here
So you have the doggie and cats sorted (hopefully), but please make sure that you well strap down the old chariot.
Hi Guest,
"You know who(s) who" cannot be a rabbit surely, because "developers" are killing off all the wild life and besides it's so "cute"
Martin,
Thanks for that.
Dr Bruxy,
Education, Education, Education.
Regards Nightrider.
Folks please be careful out there
Hi Notary,
You put your point as you see it and this has to be respected. But having personal knowledge, I am afraid and trust you will forgive me, somewhat naive. By way of example (and there are so many now) today's posting on the General Forum, re: Plug Pull etc (Quote Times).
Hi Blue,
You will recall our discussion on ferries and the Bay of Biscay, the latter I advised could "toss" you about, well as you can a see lot of "tossing" is also going on here
So you have the doggie and cats sorted (hopefully), but please make sure that you well strap down the old chariot.
Hi Guest,
"You know who(s) who" cannot be a rabbit surely, because "developers" are killing off all the wild life and besides it's so "cute"
Martin,
Thanks for that.
Dr Bruxy,
Education, Education, Education.
Regards Nightrider.
Folks please be careful out there
-
SAM SPARKLE
- CVO Legend
- Posts: 3087
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:18 am
-
nightrider
Quote: Margaret Brown
Algarve Resident
Pleasures enjoyed á deux:
Extracts......
`Those precious intervals between visitors are balm to the soul and give an edge to simple pleasures enjoyed á deux...Lunch without chatter, a siesta, tea and drive to the neareat beach for a swim is as good as it gets'
..................................................
Despite ugly concrete hinter-land and endless insensitive development of this historic port, Lagos waterfront and old town retain much of the mystery and magic at night. While the severe earthquake and tsunami of 1755 carried away much of the original waterfront and old buildings, that which replaced it had a grace and charm completely missing in 21st century construction.
.................................................
I enjoyed the whole article. Nightrider
Algarve Resident
Pleasures enjoyed á deux:
Extracts......
`Those precious intervals between visitors are balm to the soul and give an edge to simple pleasures enjoyed á deux...Lunch without chatter, a siesta, tea and drive to the neareat beach for a swim is as good as it gets'
..................................................
Despite ugly concrete hinter-land and endless insensitive development of this historic port, Lagos waterfront and old town retain much of the mystery and magic at night. While the severe earthquake and tsunami of 1755 carried away much of the original waterfront and old buildings, that which replaced it had a grace and charm completely missing in 21st century construction.
.................................................
I enjoyed the whole article. Nightrider
-
nightrider
-
SAM SPARKLE
- CVO Legend
- Posts: 3087
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:18 am
Here is the article, rather long but interesting.
Wealthy Irish snapping up sun and million-euro pads
Thursday October 6th 2005
ADVERTISEMENT
Gerry Fagan, director of Oceanico Developments & Oceanico Group, with Mary Mangan, managing director, Oceanico Resorts and (above) the Jardim da Meia Praia resort, which is 60pc Irish in terms of ownership
Oceanico Developments targets the upmarket property investor looking for an all-in package
IRISH people's appetite for second properties abroad shows no sign of being satisfied any time soon, according to Gerry Fagan, co-owner of Anglo-Irish company Oceanico Developments.
Oceanico is developing its sixth resort in Portugal.
The lastest development, which was recently launched in Dublin's Mansion house, includes properties carrying a price tag of up to €1.6m, while apartments start at €425,000. But the top end of the market is showing considerable interest in the exclusive resorts and an impressive 156 properties out of 253 were sold at the launch.
While cheaper properties are available in Portugal and elsewhere, Oceanico has found success by offering "top of the range" developments. The company's total portfolio to date has a sales value in excess of €700m.
It prides itself on quality developments, and that means that children's clubs, playgrounds, leisure facilities and restaurants are all part of the mix.
"We put those in as standard, so our prices are going to be that bit more," said Mr Fagan.
Bargain hunters won't be looking at the latest project. The sixth development is the 640-acre Amendoeira Golf Resort, with two championship 18 hole golf courses, one designed by Nick Faldo and one designed by Christy O'Connor Jnr.
Irish people are the biggest buyers of Oceanico properties. The first development, Jardim da Meia Praia, is 60pc Irish in terms of ownership. The remaining 40pc are British.
"When you start to sell, the market share is 70/75pc for Irish people. But by the time the whole thing pans out, and you finish off the development, it unusually ends up about 60/40," said Mr Fagan.
But return on investment is steady, at somewhere between 7 and 10pc on an annual basis.
Mr Fagan got into the business 12 years ago when he decided to retire early after 25 years with the Campbell Bewley Group, where he held various senior positions. He sold his shareholding there and was on contract with a development company when he was introduced to Simon Burgess, now his partner. Mr Fagan had bought a small villa in Portugal already.
Mr Burgess was a successful developer in the Manchester area of Britain, developing golf courses and other projects on a small scale and he was planning to enter the Portuguese market.
"What was needed was expertise, contacts and money. The combination of these things led us to believe we could make a partnership," said Mr Fagan.
"We met at Dublin Airport - it was only his second time in Ireland ever, and within a couple of hours we cemented a deal to buy the first site," he recalls.
The sixth development is the 640-acre Amendoeira Golf Resort, with two championship 18 hole golf courses, one designed by Nick Faldo and one designed by Christy O'Connor Jnr
"Myself and Simon actually put every penny we had into it, and we had two further partners who came into it with us just as equity partners and it worked well and they got a great return out of it," he said.
This first development is now run by sister company Oceanico Resorts, which is headed by Irish woman Mary Mangan. This company handles the rental business on behalf of clients.
"I think when we started off, we probably were inexperienced in terms of knowing the best thing to do. Very shortly after we started construction we realised that a lot of people, particularly when we were selling to them, were asking what was going to happen on the rental side of things. We didn't really know and thought maybe we should do something on it.
"When we looked at it then, we decided that we were putting so much effort into producing a good quality product that maybe we should put some effort into developing a good quality resort there. And that's when we decided to start up Oceanico Resorts.
Said Ms Mangan: "It's a very simple proposition. You buy your apartment, it's wholly yours to own. You sign it back over to me effectively to manage and rent it. Some people don't want to rent it, they just want the property looked after and in that particular case we visit the property once a week, make sure from a security perspective all is well, pay the bills".
This resorts business is as much a marketing tool as anything else and it offers innovation packages, including golf and "pampering" deals.
"From that first year, anybody who stayed with us has either bought a property from us or come back on holiday again," she said.
Several more developments are planned for the future to feed the hunger for more investment properties: "Our intention is to stay in Portugal. But it's getting harder and harder to get sites in the Algarve and we'll probably move up the coast, towards the North," said Mr Fagan.
Wealthy Irish snapping up sun and million-euro pads
Thursday October 6th 2005
ADVERTISEMENT
Gerry Fagan, director of Oceanico Developments & Oceanico Group, with Mary Mangan, managing director, Oceanico Resorts and (above) the Jardim da Meia Praia resort, which is 60pc Irish in terms of ownership
Oceanico Developments targets the upmarket property investor looking for an all-in package
IRISH people's appetite for second properties abroad shows no sign of being satisfied any time soon, according to Gerry Fagan, co-owner of Anglo-Irish company Oceanico Developments.
Oceanico is developing its sixth resort in Portugal.
The lastest development, which was recently launched in Dublin's Mansion house, includes properties carrying a price tag of up to €1.6m, while apartments start at €425,000. But the top end of the market is showing considerable interest in the exclusive resorts and an impressive 156 properties out of 253 were sold at the launch.
While cheaper properties are available in Portugal and elsewhere, Oceanico has found success by offering "top of the range" developments. The company's total portfolio to date has a sales value in excess of €700m.
It prides itself on quality developments, and that means that children's clubs, playgrounds, leisure facilities and restaurants are all part of the mix.
"We put those in as standard, so our prices are going to be that bit more," said Mr Fagan.
Bargain hunters won't be looking at the latest project. The sixth development is the 640-acre Amendoeira Golf Resort, with two championship 18 hole golf courses, one designed by Nick Faldo and one designed by Christy O'Connor Jnr.
Irish people are the biggest buyers of Oceanico properties. The first development, Jardim da Meia Praia, is 60pc Irish in terms of ownership. The remaining 40pc are British.
"When you start to sell, the market share is 70/75pc for Irish people. But by the time the whole thing pans out, and you finish off the development, it unusually ends up about 60/40," said Mr Fagan.
But return on investment is steady, at somewhere between 7 and 10pc on an annual basis.
Mr Fagan got into the business 12 years ago when he decided to retire early after 25 years with the Campbell Bewley Group, where he held various senior positions. He sold his shareholding there and was on contract with a development company when he was introduced to Simon Burgess, now his partner. Mr Fagan had bought a small villa in Portugal already.
Mr Burgess was a successful developer in the Manchester area of Britain, developing golf courses and other projects on a small scale and he was planning to enter the Portuguese market.
"What was needed was expertise, contacts and money. The combination of these things led us to believe we could make a partnership," said Mr Fagan.
"We met at Dublin Airport - it was only his second time in Ireland ever, and within a couple of hours we cemented a deal to buy the first site," he recalls.
The sixth development is the 640-acre Amendoeira Golf Resort, with two championship 18 hole golf courses, one designed by Nick Faldo and one designed by Christy O'Connor Jnr
"Myself and Simon actually put every penny we had into it, and we had two further partners who came into it with us just as equity partners and it worked well and they got a great return out of it," he said.
This first development is now run by sister company Oceanico Resorts, which is headed by Irish woman Mary Mangan. This company handles the rental business on behalf of clients.
"I think when we started off, we probably were inexperienced in terms of knowing the best thing to do. Very shortly after we started construction we realised that a lot of people, particularly when we were selling to them, were asking what was going to happen on the rental side of things. We didn't really know and thought maybe we should do something on it.
"When we looked at it then, we decided that we were putting so much effort into producing a good quality product that maybe we should put some effort into developing a good quality resort there. And that's when we decided to start up Oceanico Resorts.
Said Ms Mangan: "It's a very simple proposition. You buy your apartment, it's wholly yours to own. You sign it back over to me effectively to manage and rent it. Some people don't want to rent it, they just want the property looked after and in that particular case we visit the property once a week, make sure from a security perspective all is well, pay the bills".
This resorts business is as much a marketing tool as anything else and it offers innovation packages, including golf and "pampering" deals.
"From that first year, anybody who stayed with us has either bought a property from us or come back on holiday again," she said.
Several more developments are planned for the future to feed the hunger for more investment properties: "Our intention is to stay in Portugal. But it's getting harder and harder to get sites in the Algarve and we'll probably move up the coast, towards the North," said Mr Fagan.
Off topic - late reply
Thanks Nightrider, I didn't get to see a bee eater (saw a Jay I think, up by Tunes)Completely off topic I know - but just had a great 12 nights (and days) in CVO and region.
Brilliant walks, along the cliffs, fell over a few rocks, bugger, looked in a few reservoirs further north (OK OK they're low......)
Didn't play golf, but did look at a few courses (checking out the grass!)
Alzejur is still steep! - shut the road to the castle for cars though...my legs can't take it!
As usual a great time had by all the family.
....but back to developements....seems to be more going on since last year? and mainly unfinished?
Slowly getting the point
Chippy
Brilliant walks, along the cliffs, fell over a few rocks, bugger, looked in a few reservoirs further north (OK OK they're low......)
Didn't play golf, but did look at a few courses (checking out the grass!)
Alzejur is still steep! - shut the road to the castle for cars though...my legs can't take it!
As usual a great time had by all the family.
....but back to developements....seems to be more going on since last year? and mainly unfinished?
Slowly getting the point
Chippy
-
nightrider
Re: Off topic - late reply
Chippy,
Thank you for taking the trouble to write to me. I and I know most on this forum, especially the ones like me who live here, are so very pleased to hear that you enjoy your hols and Portugal. It is a beautiful country and if small developments are done to compliment the location, I personally have no problem with that. But if people like myself don't speak out and try where possible to make others aware, the Algarve will become another concrete mess. Lets sincerely, hope not.
I bet you can't wait for your next visit. Take Care. Nightrider.
Please folks be careful out there.
Thank you for taking the trouble to write to me. I and I know most on this forum, especially the ones like me who live here, are so very pleased to hear that you enjoy your hols and Portugal. It is a beautiful country and if small developments are done to compliment the location, I personally have no problem with that. But if people like myself don't speak out and try where possible to make others aware, the Algarve will become another concrete mess. Lets sincerely, hope not.
I bet you can't wait for your next visit. Take Care. Nightrider.
Please folks be careful out there.
-
denniscash
- CVO Regular
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:27 pm
- Location: Quinta do Lago
Oceanico developments
This is something that i dont understand. In Silves, now they are touching the main lands of Portugal. Any comments on that? Nightrider? I thought you were against developments, preserving the environment. 640 hectars of land being develloped into a huge Irish Ghetto..ouch.. I dont know if its such a good idea, i have been in Meia Prai oceanico developments, and those are tall buildings fitted with apartments like in sardine box and right on the beach..and they are exhadurating about quality aswell, nothing special, in fact its below standard quality in any other countries...now this is a kind of development that people should find against...640 hectars of land is a lot..why dont they plant trees there instead, that burned during the summer season.. i understand a development of 10 or 20 hectars, but those Oceanico People just go for the mass and not for the quality and better living..and water shortage? Imagine how many boreholes they have to dig there to maintain the golf courses and developments! Thats environmental, and guess what...the water that is coming from monchique, goes through silves undergrounds layers..so people living closer to the coast betweeen lagoa, carvoeiro and Benagil wll have a lack of water!! Dont you think? And this is the prices that are high, 425,000 euros for a 2 bedroom? In Silves, away from the beach and the cities.
-
Guest
I really don't believe that people would be stupid enough to buy 2 bed apts at that price 
.........in fact anyone buying at the prices wanted today need to rethink imho. Ireland only has a small population so the Pt. can't rely on the Irish to keep buying these properties and if the UK Chancellor has been cooking the books, more UK residents becoming bankrupt, repossessions are at the level of 1991 etc., then who exactly can afford to buy these properties apart from the obvious ie. bankers and lawyers:?
As for luxury developments........thought that Dubai was the place to invest now?
The bulk of the money for second homes etc is coming from equity stored up in existing properties, profits from property sales and transfers of funds from non performing pension funds.
The level of investments in places like dubai is still a fraction of that achieved in Spain and Portugal every year.
Oceanico will achieve the prices and sales they want and only a major world recession will stop this and as we will all suffer if it did happen non of us want this.
Its not just in Portugal however where this frenzy exists,
A new development in Weston Super mare was launched last week, 87 new apartments not ready until 2007.
1 bd room starting from 265,000 euros. 51, yes 51, sold within 24 hrs.
We were at the launch and saw a couple in their thirties buy TWO.
Until property ceases to be the best investment for the future any of us have development in its many and various forms will continue.
The level of investments in places like dubai is still a fraction of that achieved in Spain and Portugal every year.
Oceanico will achieve the prices and sales they want and only a major world recession will stop this and as we will all suffer if it did happen non of us want this.
Its not just in Portugal however where this frenzy exists,
A new development in Weston Super mare was launched last week, 87 new apartments not ready until 2007.
1 bd room starting from 265,000 euros. 51, yes 51, sold within 24 hrs.
We were at the launch and saw a couple in their thirties buy TWO.
Until property ceases to be the best investment for the future any of us have development in its many and various forms will continue.
It has been said that the Irish have been active in the Algarve market for some several years now, presumably owing to the striking performance of the Irish economy. How true this is, I cannot say, but that's the general word. If the Irish do indeed have extra money to spend, it would be unreasonable to expect that some of it would not end up here.