thieving b'stards around the ADM

[jonboy]

yes but all that does is force them to go to less secure places so it becomes a p%$%$ match in who has the best security. If they know who is behind a large number cases surely it is worth the effort in discretley follow them or search their van or premises.

[Gambrinus]

Sorry to have to return to this subject and please do not this I'm being smug in any way but there was general derision at the security attached to Monte Santo. Sounds like it would be more than welcome here!!

Monte Santo is a closed resort and was designed as such - whoever bought in there knew that it would look and feel a bit like a guilded cage in exchange for peace of mind that the property was safe from thieving scum.

The problem is that most people buy and rent in the Algarve with a very specific image of the Algarve in their minds - the Algarve in the 1980s, almost crime free, wide open spaces, no neon lights, no gates or fences.

Sadly, those times have come and gone and with the boom came the rest of the sociological problems - vandalizing youth, petty theft, breaking and entering, all topics that we have covered here in the past and which continue to be an issue.

These problems can be dealt with, but as I mentioned before, it requires a consolidated effort.

Looking at the polls after a month, I am sorry to say that the forum, although well frequented, does not cover enough owner representation in any area in Carvoeiro to serve as a basis for area-specific communication.

Roping together a group of property owners that is spread across the entire town won't do us much good, as we could talk about problems and solutions, but there would be no realistic way of implementing anything.

So a p%ss match in who has the best security is the only viable option at this point. The community as a whole will be hard to rally with convetional means, so it is every owner to him/herself for now.

[SJ & RE]

Agree in part G. but what about having a couple of evening meetings set up in a pub or somehere, scattered around the area , well press coveraged,media etc posters, notes sent to complexes etc and on this site for dates times locations and have an English speaking GNR representative and councillors, and companies that can give advice on security to owners, holiday makers and complex operators etc.
I have held many an event on home security for the community (ies) in which I live or have lived and all are well represented at any meetings I hold.
I know this is a very different prospect for CVO, but I am sure if someone with a bit of savvy sets it up and covers as many angles as possible, it will get the message out to people. Use the Resident paper as well to get the message out and contact all social groups etc.
It is a viable proposition for someone to organise if they have the foresight, vision and time.
Lets face it many of those living in bliss in CVO, could surely spend some time and brain power to help this venture and have some community spirit.It only takes one person to get things going and then you can get more on board. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

[EMM]

Are we not in danger of creating a huge mountain out of a tiny anthill with this and associated posts.
Of course if you are the victim of petty theft then its a major problem.
But just how many thefts from " SECURE " properties are there during the season ??
If just a few basic security rules are followed then even this could be reduced.

Do all owners have safes ( even the small ones you can buy from AKi, IZI ).
Thieves are looking to walk in pick up and walk out.
Holiday makers should be encouraged to put car keys, passports, mobiles away when they are out.
Do all owners inform their guests to lock up when they leave.
How many owners are prepared to pay more to their management to provide patrols or CCTV

Our apartment has been visited twice , I cant say broken into to as on each occaision a window or patio door was left open. by guests who have to accept reposnsibilty but I bet they did not tell their insurance companies !

The resort has installed CCTV and has random patrols result almost no casual thefts in 2 years.

As for the " Monte Santo " type resort being immune ,nowhere is from the casual thief, Villamoura has just as many if not more as the pickings are richer.

Carvoeiro is no better or now worse than any holiday resort anywhere in the world.

[jonboy]

Agree with most of your points Mr G but my main point is that GNR could a lot more for very little effort.They know who these people and could eliminate many future crimes and save themselves mountains of admin work by putting in a bit more effort now. For example in my case they tried - unsuccessfully, to remove the small safe. Why did they not fingerpirnt the safe or the light switches they used? Of course they could have used gloves but if they have gotten away with as many crimes as the GNR say they are responsible for, they have more than likely become blase and don't use them. If they know the culprits then raid the house and fingerprint then b"$!£^$^. Sloppy policing, lack of resources, laziness whatever the reason, it is unacceptable that they don't at least try and bust these people.

Jon

[HampshireRich]

Jonboy - not sure why you think the GNR should be any better than the police in the UK?

When's the last time a "petty theft" crime was solved by the local police - for example, my daughter's car had it's window smashed in Southampton and some stuff stolen. The police response - "we know who it is but won't be able to prove they did it - we are not even going to try". She got a letter 6 months later saying a petty thief was caught red-handed and confessed to over 200 other crimes, her car being one although no sign of her property.

So basically, the GNR are the same as elsewhere - G has tried to do something without much of a response, so it looks like the owners have to protect their properties themselves and advise their guests to be careful. Meetings in bars once every 2 or 3 months do not work. I also do not think a Resident Asscociation would really work nor a neighbourhood watch - too many different people visiting the area - who's a holidaymaker, who's a occassional visitor, who a property owner and whose a crook - how can you tell?

It is still a great area to visit and it is still a safe area to visit and still relatively crime-free.

[SJ & RE]

I agree with the posts, however I am not a scaremongerer just a person that realises that crime exists everywhere. It does help and work if people are involved and discuss their worries and get appropriate advice re home safety. It matters not a scrap what country, but it does matter that people wake up and smell the roses and talk to each other. It is a responsibility of a home owner or/and a complex to ensure that appropriate home securtiy is provided. Moreover, if you let out your property it is imperative amongst the information you provide in writing to your guests, that a home safety pack is provided.One does so in the UK, so why not elsewhere. I do when I let out my other house.
When the family had a huge ski lodge in Switzerland, years ago, (first husbands family, it was the one used in one of the James Bond movies, mega rich family)they then supplied all house guests with an appropriate pack which even then included home safety awareness. I agree some people leave their brains at home when they go on holiday, cos they are overworked, I suppose, so I gentle reminder does not go aray.

[jonboy]

HR - It does not differ from UK but that does not mean we should accept it otherwise they always win ? Of course that does not put me off coming over 5-6 times a year and never will but I happen to think that if they have intelligence on who is behind a crime then they should at least try and solve it and not accpet it will always happen.

Jon

[Gambrinus]

The problem with aprehension of the criminals is the way the system is set up.

Firstly, we are being policed by a military unit which has little or not qualification in crime prevention or detective work. They do have a forensics team that can lift prints and process crime scenes, but involving them and the associated resources in such an incident requires that there is at least a minimum of hard evidence to be recovered.
Most thieves will use gloves and the chances that you will recover prints from a scene are next to none. Furthermore, there is no such thing as a national prints database, so if the criminal has no previous record, the prints are useless untill he or she is aprehended.

Secondly, the legal system will always work towards releasing petty criminals due to the severe lack of resources to keep them incarcerated.
It is a well known fact, that even if you are caught red handed, chances are you will be out on the street after a few months because they can't accomodate you.
This invariably leads to a lower morale among the police as it can be very frustrating to see weeks of investigative work result in next to nothing.

[SJ & RE]

Hence perhaps a little vigilante

[martin.cork]

Or maybe a big vigilante.!!!!!!!
Our villa at ADM was broken into on the 14th June, this was the 5th time in 3 years, Prosecom/Alarm did not prevent the recent
break-in. What little valuables are un the safe so the thieves now resort to stealing clothes, aftershave, etc.
At this stage the thieves visit the villa more than I do.Maybe i should give them a set of keys, at least no damage is done.
The police should do their job and catch these thieves, let the courts decide what to do with them.
These thieves are regulars as they have entered our villa the same way each time.
Its not a very comfortable feeling that the thieves are watching your movement.
The only way is. to set a trap for these b******** .
Otherwise there will be a lot of unhappy visitors to Carvoeiro, visitors who may never return.
Afterall if one can get rid of a 40' mast it should not be too difficult to get rid of a 6' thief.
This problem is not going to solve itself, it's here to stay unlesss something is done.
Do we have to wait until someone is seriously injured.

[jonboy]

The lack of a deterrent in the form of a competent police force means these people are free to go about committing crime at will.

It does appear from the cases reported on here that there appears to be at least two teams operating

1) The red van ‘ciganos’ brigade from QDP who are prepared to wrench safes off of wall -they only managed to get ours half out at Monte D but I am sure that they will back to finish the job in the fullness of time although they appear to have a full diary during the summer months!! ( hope they turn up when I am there as they will have a few things wrenched from their person that much I do promise! ) Does anyone have the index number so that others can be alerted?

2) The opportunist gang who seem content with sneaking in whilst the property is occupied and perhaps the odd little bit forced entry in the ones that are not

Vigilante action is not the answer but in the absence of a GNR solution what options are left open to us all?
Ideas?

[HampshireRich]

I think the real problem facing everyone owner here is cost.

Obviously, a decent security system - CCTV being constantly monitored, security guards etc is very expensive and also would make it seem like you are barricaded in - not a good experience.

More subtle prevention - decent private burgular alarms, private CCTV recording etc which would entail changes to the property, a link from the alarm to the police, patrols etc would also be expensive.

If there were witnesses and the offence can be proved, then the owner has to get the GNR to make an arrest, and push for prosecution - and I know that its been said that this has been useless in the past - but if the offenders are procesuted at every instance, eventually they will have to be jailed, or may just get fed up and go elsewhere. That's the only thing I can think of that doesn't involve heavy security or vigilantes.

[Gambrinus]

You don't necessarily have to go as far as CCTV and private security. It has been my expereince that alarm systems if paired up with a halfways decent set of windows and doors already make the house an unatractive target.

Some houses are still fitted with single glazed aluminium frames that any child could open with a fork. Putting an alarm on a house with windows like that is not going to be sufficient deterrent, because the thief can be in and out with the plasma long before anyone shows up.
Given that the houses will all be submitted to the energy certification process in the not-so-distant future, investing in a decent set of windows with double laminated glazing and multi-point locks not only increases the security but also adds to the energy grade of the property.

Lastly, passive security features like fences and gates make a lot of difference. In ADM a thief can walk from plot to plot and garden to garden with next to no resistance - the plots have no gates (or unlocked gates) and there are no fences between the gardens. That is an open invitation to browse and grab.

[jonboy]

Good advice G