IMI

kteee · Post by **kteee** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 6:12 pm

I think it depends on how much you have to borrow as to whether it is worthwhile. Our 3 bed apartment has been just about full from 1/3-25/9 this year, and will cover its costs, but not make any huge profit. We are in this for the long haul and are more interested in capital appreciation in the long term rather than making a profit in the short term.

If you are serious about buying, you could do a lot worse than the 2 bed apartments on Monte Dourado which DSI are selling now. They start around £100k and are fully furnished, I know 3 people who have bought there recently, and I will probably be doing the lettings for them next year. Follow the link to DSI on the real estate page of this site - and if you want any more information, send me an e-mail at karentelling@btclick.com and I'll help if I can.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:21 am

from what i have read here, even if you get your capital appreciation you will still pay capital gains tax and sisa as well

kteee · Post by **kteee** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 8:31 am

You only pay sisa when you buy a property (IMT now) and capital gains when you sell. Our apartment has already made a substantial capital appreciation (in a short space of time), provides enjoyment for us and our friends and family, and covers its costs. I have no regrets about buying in Carvoeiro, although I do think the offshore situation is completely ridiculous, it does seem to be a case of 'soaking the foreign owners' because they can get away with it.

With an IMT of 15% on new offshore purchases, obviously no one will buy offshore any more, and consequently over time the number of offshore owners will fall (I assume offshores will be made onshore when sold) isn't this going to achieve what they want without the additional 5% IMI? The IMI therefore is just an additional money spinner which is going to create a lot of ill feeling among foreign investors, in my opinion.

biffa · Post by **biffa** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 8:44 pm

Wise remarks from Kteeeeeee as usual.

She picks the salient points out of a complicated situation.

Signed
Kteeeeee admirer!

Ps how many eeeee's in Kteeeeee?

kteee · Post by **kteee** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 8:51 pm

Thanks for the compliment biffa.

I'm blushing!

The e's are because I can't normally register on sites just as kt, nothing more sinister than that

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 13, 2003 11:27 pm

can i ask for the following clarification.

if the offfshore sells its asset at the original purchase value to its beneficial owner..ie no capital gains and min sisa tax and then the owner sells its to someone else is cgt liable on the sale of this property of the beneficial ownner (i speak of a portuguese tax payer) which is their principal and sole residence.

i had heard wrongly or rightly that no cgt for portuguese tax payers fell due if monies were reinvested in other property....iis this correct or is there some per centage which qualifies for relief

Guest3 · Post by **Guest3** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 9:47 pm

When will all of this ie the 5% become absolute?

Is anyone in officialdom opposing it?

offshore owner · Post by **offshore owner** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 2:34 pm

The new tax regime is grossly unfair and it is the poor offshore owners who will have to foot the bill. For years the practice of under declaring has been part of parcel of the conveyancing business with the lawyers, tax administration companies, the local ecomony all benefitting in some way shape or form. Now what happens, the practice is stamped upon and the owners who have accepted advice from those mentioned above to adopt the offshore method, are the ones who are expected to pay the very high price in either CGT SISA or local IMI tax bill, that quite frankly, none of us can afford if they re value. Why not just phase out the offshore route over time? Why don't they start collecting tax from the many many locals who are paid cahs in hand and perhaps would not have such a good income if it were not for the foreign owners with their properties facilitating tourism. What they deserve is for the foreign owners to shut up shop and re locate!!!

totally confused · Post by **totally confused** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 3:10 pm

I think it is a bit unfair to blame the locals!! As for the 'poor' offshore owners - they are hardly in this position if they can afford to purchase property overseas which is something that many Portuguese cannot afford to do on their very low and unfair incomes in the light of all the hard work they do and with never ending courtesy. The man in the street didnt change the rules, as usual it's the man up top!!!!

offshore owner · Post by **offshore owner** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 5:35 pm

I apologise if I have offended the locals as I never intended to. One of the very reasons why many foreign owners purchased in Portugal was because of the attitude and kindness of the local people. The point I was trying to make - and obviously failed, was that the Goverment are quite clearly try to take advantage of the investors who over the years have made a significant difference to the development of the local economy in this region in the form of jobs for locals and tourism.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 6:59 pm

oh please dont tell us about the "poor" locals....the biggest market in europe for ferrraris is porto...the most number of bmws and mercedes registered in a city in europe other than munich is in lisbon....if you have lived here long enough you will realise that here is great deal of wealth here...there are for example enough houses in portugal for a population of 30 million but only 10 million live here...and all these houses are not all owned by foreigners ....of that i can assure you.

yes there are poor people here, but also many ,many rich ones too who have done very well out of tourism and the influx of foreigners. try reading judy sharps column in this weeks "resident".
if there is sympathy to be given out then the poorest people i know here are the eastern europeans who are cheated right left and centre by many of the locals.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 7:30 pm

it seems the Portuguese Govt. is no different to British Government then? Maybe we should just put any savings under the mattress like we used to - at least the taxman cant get his hands on it then but if a burglar gets it then he will most probably get a reward too for breaking in and finding it!!!!

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 6:02 pm

good article in this weeks "the news" re offshore from dennis greene of finespo...its a MUST READ for all those affected

Kidson · Post by **Kidson** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 6:39 pm

For those of us overseas who unable to get hold of "the news" can you extrapolate the article and post on this site for all to read?

Post by **Steen Jakobsen** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:10 pm

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be on http://www.the-news.net - though most of the paper can be read over the net.

Offshore

offshore ownership