Energy Certificates, Not all bad News

[EMM]

As most will know it is now a legal requirement that before any property is even advertised for sale it must have a current energy certificate.
Agents we know are contacting their clients asking for this and are finding a suprising number who do not want to pay, do not want the hassle or do not have all the other supporting paperwork required for their properties.
The result is that those properties are being taken off the market .
Fewer properties being advertised for sale can only be good news for the genuine sellers.

[widge]

Agents we know are contacting their clients asking for this and are finding a suprising number who do not want to pay, do not want the hassle or do not have all the other supporting paperwork required for their properties.
The result is that those properties are being taken off the market .

What a shame managing agents don't apply the same principal to rental properties without an "AL" certificate, we might enjoy a more prosperous New Year !

[sunman]

yes, I can imagine the agents are delighted that half their stock is being taken off their books. great news.

[cereza]

One agent contacted me about my villa needing a certificate and was most surprised when I told him that I sold it in 2012
He obviously had been working hard to sell it for me

I would hazard a guess that those who don't want to get a certificate had their properties at unrealistically high prices anyway

[DaveK]

Had ours done on the apartment on Gramacho last Friday, which is still for sale! Arrived Thursday evening and emailed our solicitor Friday morning who arranged for the surveyor Friday afternoon. All very quick and easy and 50 euros less than Pestana wanted! Still a hell of a lot dearer than an EPC in the UK though.

[EMM]

How much did you pay, I have been quoted 250euros plus IVA.

[DaveK]

The company used was Tavares Farinha, who are Portimao based. The cost was 255.00 euros including IVA. No doubt my solicitor will eventually bill for arranging this, but his charges are more than reasonable compared to some. I would rather that than give Pestana a fat commission for doing sod all, which is just what they seem to do when selling a property through them! The surveyor seemed efficient and, as my wife is involved in such issues in the UK property market, was able to discuss the differences between requirements. Hope this helps.

[traveler]

Thanks for the useful thread. I have a quote for 250Euro + IVA + the governmental tax (ADENE) that is 45,00€ + IVA. Do the previous quotes above include the ADENE (whatever that is)? Seems to me this whole program is just designed to raise tax revenue. Total tax collection is approximately 110Euros (IVA + ADENE). So this is a revenue program they really dont care about your energy rating.

[EMM]

Yes the prices I was quoted are plus Aderne.

It may well be a revenue raising ploy but if it means properties being taken off the market I do not think the genuine sellers wil complain.

[traveler]

It is at a minimum a revenue acceleration program. My understanding is that you used to need the certificate to close the sale, so most sellers would arrange for the certificate as part of the closing process. Now all serious sellers need to have the certificate to list a property, with the threats of fines, and typical Portuguese enforcement measures, this is clearly a revenue raising opportunity. The change in the law does not create a useful change in energy consumption. It really does not change anything other than to force a seller to spend money now. My guess is the government sees a lot of properties for sale - then calculated the potential tax revenue and changed the law in hopes of raising xx Million Euros by the end of the year. Any guess as to why you need it by Dec 1st? To generate the revenue this year not next year or when the property is sold.

[sunman]

Yes the prices I was quoted are plus Aderne.

It may well be a revenue raising ploy but if it means properties being taken off the market I do not think the genuine sellers wil complain.

please explain the correlation between being forced to part with €375 for a piece of paper and the genuineness of a seller?

[EMM]

Like the new rules or not , if you want to sell then you need an energy cert.
If you do not want to get one then how serious a seller are you.
There will of course be those who cannot afford it but as any agent will tell you there are those who have set a price in the hope some one will come along and pay it even if it is years out of date.
There are those and we pass properties like this on every which have been virtually abandoned. unpainted, garden overgrown yet still on the books with their original photos.
How serious is that seller?
Properties removed from sale is not bad news.

[sunman]

I asked for a correlation, and you've failed to give one. so what if there are villas for sale with old photos, or weeds in the drive? that just lessens the is chance of selling, or getting their asking price.

this is the latest in a string of money gouging ideas simply to dress up tax raising & is turning prospective owners away, people want less bureaucracy, not more, simples.

[EMM]

It is hardly turning owners away as it is the seller who has to conform and make their property legal.
That can only be good news for prospective buyers.
Sellers if they want to sell have a simple choice obtain a certificate as part of their paperwork or they cannot use an agent.
If they were serious sellers why are some taking their properties off the market.
Yes it may be a tax but if you want to sell you have to pay it.
Simple as that even if you advertise privately the sale cannot be completed without an energy cert.

[Lulu]

I just feel sorry for people who are selling property solely to get out of a difficult financial situation, only to now be hit with a further 250 euro + fee (and in some cases much much more) that they can ill afford, I know of a couple of Portuguese families where the father has been forced to leave the country to find work elsewhere, and the mother is working two or even three jobs, looking after children and aging parents and struggling to make ends meet, so their house is up for sale in an effort to raise funds just to survive, these people ARE genuine sellers, (what does "genuine Seller" actually mean?) they just don't have the money to pay yet another tax, that's why their family homes are on the market in the first place! Nobody is adverse to paying the required taxes and fees associated with house selling, (and you can't sell or buy without paying tax) but as and when the sale is in place, being forced to pay for this certificate upfront means that people already suffering financial hardship can find themselves in a crisis situation, whether they are Portuguese or ex-pats from other countries.

For those of you that are warm, with a roof over your head and food on the table, then thank your lucky stars, as there are many for whom this will not be a very Merry Christmas.