whistleblower bbc

martin · Post by **martin** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:10 pm

interesting programme tonight on bbc about uk estate agency activities...good thing such sharp practices dont happen here in the algarve

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4826444.stm

Bruxinha · Post by **Bruxinha** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:45 am

The programme, whilst not a surprise, was still horrifying, Martin...I know how I will buy/sell a house in the future and it won't be via those sleeze bags and leeches.

Made me sick to the core.

Lesley Jean · Post by **Lesley Jean** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:50 am

Agree Bruxy, we are going to be putting our place on the market this summer now I think I might just do it privately and cut out the middle man. I did not believe what I was hearing last night on that programme

nightrider · Post by **nightrider** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:03 pm

removed by n.r.

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:58 pm

Agree with all of you here! We watched this disturbing programme too

We're thinking of putting ours on the market this summer(just to see what happens)..and think we may follow Lesley's idea..do it privately!
Whats the betting, many will be thinking along those lines now?

e-richard · Post by **e-richard** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:39 pm

Last week I watched Rogue Trader, the story of Nick Leeson, who brought down Barings Bank. If you watch that, will it mean you take all your money out of your bank and put it under the mattress ?

I know we all love to hate Estate Agents, and the program last night exposed 3 or 4 seriously evil agents. But does that really mean that all (each and every) estate agent is crooked ?

I'm sorry to have to disagree with so many lovely people here, but I have bought and sold a number of houses in my time, always thru estate agents, and have had very good service.

Yes, I may be lucky that I haven't encountered the rogues, but in my opinion, its only partly luck, partly a little bit of common sense, but above all the odds are seriously stacked in my favour. The vast majority of estate agents are probably genuine and its only the few who are evil, and those few make exceptionally good TV entertainment - thats all it was - and yes, I enjoyed watching it.

Richard

p.s. I am not, and neither I or any member of my family have ever been involved in the estate agency business - I have no axe to grind.

Bruxinha · Post by **Bruxinha** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:10 pm

I agree with you to some extent, Richard and of course programmes look to sensationalise, but unfortunately I think many people don't even know when they have been stitched up. It is like here, in Portugal, so many people tell me how great their legal rep or real estate agent was and then I get talking to them further and find out they haven't got half the documents they should have. They had no idea and just assumed because the person "seemed" so helpful and nice, that everything must be in order.

Unfortunately, I am very cynical now, so I don't ever feel comfortable about putting my "life" in anyone else's hands, in any country. I would prefer, as much as possible, to do things and check stuff myself. "Once bitten, twice shy." Yes, that takes more time, but for me, it is worth it. I was talking to someone recently about real estate in their country (a Scandanavian country) and they said that mostly people are selling privately, especially on the net. They check the papers out themselves in the first instance before taking the matter further in a legal capacity. Usual saying applies "caveat emptor."

Lesley Jean · Post by **Lesley Jean** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:14 pm

I know that it is only the 'bad' ones you will see on programmes like last nights, but it does make you wonder about the more 'reputable' estate agents too. I had been thinking of going private when we sell and I must admit that now I probably will, not just because of this programme but also I think with the internet and good advertising I don't see the point of having a middle man, if I was working or did not have the time to do it myself then I would still go through an agent. I am in a very luck position in that I will be able to do all the viewings, phone calls etc.

charliegill11 · Post by **charliegill11** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:24 pm

as an estate agent i was shocked watching this programme about the sleaze, lying and deceipt that was being carried out as a normal everyday occurance together with the mortgage fraud/forging of documents. I have over the years heard of some isolated incidents not only in London but also in the Midlands and North but mainly due to gazumping and selling properties to "selected" clients. Part of the problems in the industry are that the negotiators are working on a commission basis and need to acheive certain targets or they will not be paid so they will go to any lengths in order to acheive sales - whether professional or not.
There are many agents who will not be happy with the last quotes made on the programme which indicated that this happened in every office throughout the country - it certainly does not happen in ours.

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:53 pm

It struck me that they managed to find a couple of very dishonest agents (which you will find in any trade) and then tried to weave Foxtons in to tar them with the same brush.

The rogue agents were indefensible, but whilst Foxtons were acting incorectly (indeed illegally with the forging of signatures) I did not see any evidence that anyone was deliberately mislead.

In property rental, I can understand (if not condone) what they were doing. A tenant will often make an offer on a property and want to move in in a metter of days. A lot of paperwork needs signing - including frequently a 20 plus page lease - now if the landlord signs the lease where requested on the back page, but does not understand that he has to initial every page, it can take a couple of days to get the lease back to the landlord, resigned and re-filed.

This couple of days could well lose the tenant, which in turn upsets the landlord. The landlord thought he had signed everything and would probably not have any problem with what had been done.

I watched the programme with great interest. I am at the moment using Foxtons to rent a flat and have one for sale with them. Before the programme, having seen the Daily Mail article, I was prepared to fire them as my representatives if they were acting dishonestly - having seen the programme I believe that some of their staff are cutting corners due to deadline pressures, but I do not think thay have done anything that warrants any extreme action on my part.

PS I am not, nor ever have been, an estate agent!

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:01 pm

well I wouldnt touch them with a barge pole.

if that is an example of their business ethics it shows how low standards are.

there was a time when estate agents were members of the Royal Institute Of Chartered Surveyors...now they are just touts working for themselves not for their clients

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:08 pm

Lesley Jean wrote: I know that it is only the 'bad' ones you will see on programmes like last nights, but it does make you wonder about the more 'reputable' estate agents too. I had been thinking of going private when we sell and I must admit that now I probably will, not just because of this programme but also I think with the internet and good advertising I don't see the point of having a middle man, if I was working or did not have the time to do it myself then I would still go through an agent. I am in a very luck position in that I will be able to do all the viewings, phone calls etc.

Id go along with Lesley on this. Since we moved back to UK, we've bought 2 properties, a cottage flat in Essex and this bungalow in Lincs and talking about this today, d'you know,with both properties, we ended up doing most of the work ourselves? The leg work and phoning!...and both times, we begrudged paying the agents their %.
As Lesley states, if you have the time (and we do) you can do the advertising,viewing, calls yourself..and probably save a packet!
Lesley,with your artistic skill, you could make a good 'for sale' sign to put in your garden....we will get friend Judith to do ours!

But to be fair,and taking up Richard's points, there are probably good & bad..my daughter worked for estate agent and often ran the place. There was nothing untoward that went on there,as far as she was concerned.

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:44 pm

Sorry Martin - I understand about the crooks but why exactly would you not touch Foxtons with a barge pole ?

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:46 pm

Ellie - you've confused me a bit - you say you have bought two properties and begrudged paying their fees - I have bought several properties and NEVER paid any agent - I am not surprised that you don't like estate agents!

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:01 pm

Graham wrote:Ellie - you've confused me a bit - you say you have bought two properties and begrudged paying their fees - I have bought several properties and NEVER paid any agent - I am not surprised that you don't like estate agents!

I confuse myself sometimes Graham!
Can't recall exact amount(just consulted H)...but they took up to,around £2,000 on each occassion?