Increase Police roadside checks

[EMM]

There is an article on www.algarvedailynews.com about a new campaign by the Police.
Amomg the secttors targeted it suggests are drivers of foreign plated cars.
Referring to drivers of UK plated cars " pretending to be on holiday " the comment is " expect no mercy .!!

[Bruce Wallis]

The reason I stopped bringing my British car down to the Algarve, and bought a small Portuguese registered car, was the constant harassment from the GNR, on an almost weekly basis.

Sometimes, friendly and charming....but the ones in jodphurs and wrap around shades, arrogant bullying arseholes!!!

I ended up having to carry my normal documents, my ferry ticket to prove date of entry, and my fiscal card.

It amazes me that there are Brits driving round in cars that have been in Portugal for years....no UK tax or MOT.

One guy I know, never uses the main roads in his UK car......just to avoid the GNR!!

since I bought my Portuguese car??? No hassles

[keela]

I know of several people who have been living in Portugal for many years and openly drive around in their UK registered cars and brag about the fact they have not matriculated it and have no intention of doing so. I hope that these reports are true and these arrogant lot are taught a much needed lesson. We brought out Ford Focus estate over with us in 2005. We matriculated it, figuring it was less hassle to be legal than not. The car has since been changed and we drive on Portuguese plates. Funny how this makes you "invisible".

[sunman]

I honestly don't know why people get so uptight about this, Britain and Portugal are part of the EU. If Eastern Europeans can move themselves and their families into Britain, move into a free house and start claiming benefits why should it be that folk can't drive around Europe in their cars without going through endless paperwork to do so?

If I drive from London to Yorkshire I don't have to change my number plate to a white rose and put a 'hey up duck' sticker across my windshield, why all the fuss?

[keela]

[quote="sunman"]I honestly don't know why people get so uptight about this, Britain and Portugal are part of the EU. If Eastern Europeans can move themselves and their families into Britain, move into a free house and start claiming benefits why should it be that folk can't drive around Europe in their cars without going through endless paperwork to do so?

If I drive from London to Yorkshire I don't have to change my number plate to a white rose and put a 'hey up duck' sticker across my windshield, why all the fuss? [/quot


Stupid comment about the drive into Yorkshire but "all the fuss" is about legality. When you import a car from Germany to the Uk you have by law to re-register it onto English plates. The same as here. English plates have to be changed for Portuguese ones. Yes, Britain and Portugal are part of the EU and eastern europeans do move themselves into the Uk and immediately claim every benefit going but that is down to the Government not imposing strict criteria for claiming. Which is why every legitimate UK taxpayer is paying out for all the scroungers in the UK. I take it you have no problem with law breakers? I, along with other expats who have gone down the same route don't see why we should pay to be legal and not break laws but others think it is Ok to do so.

[sunman]

I honestly don't know why people get so uptight about this, Britain and Portugal are part of the EU. If Eastern Europeans can move themselves and their families into Britain, move into a free house and start claiming benefits why should it be that folk can't drive around Europe in their cars without going through endless paperwork to do so?

If I drive from London to Yorkshire I don't have to change my number plate to a white rose and put a 'hey up duck' sticker across my windshield, why all the fuss? [/quot


Stupid comment about the drive into Yorkshire but "all the fuss" is about legality. When you import a car from Germany to the Uk you have by law to re-register it onto English plates. The same as here. English plates have to be changed for Portuguese ones. Yes, Britain and Portugal are part of the EU and eastern europeans do move themselves into the Uk and immediately claim every benefit going but that is down to the Government not imposing strict criteria for claiming. Which is why every legitimate UK taxpayer is paying out for all the scroungers in the UK. I take it you have no problem with law breakers? I, along with other expats who have gone down the same route don't see why we should pay to be legal and not break laws but others think it is Ok to do so.

the issue I have is with the ridiculous taxes Portugal applies to the purchase of cars, you can buy new German cars in the UK 20%-25% cheaper than Portugal, why should that be?
we all know that the average wage in Portugal is significantly less than the UK and I think it's grossly unfair that the locals get so ripped off and can do nothing about it, I think it would be very fair and right in an efficient EU if Mr & Mrs Gomes could travel to UK, buy a car and bring it back to Lagoa, what's going on now is extortion.

[EMM]

EU laws allow each member country to set its own tax regime which is why the UK has different VAT rules to others.
Portugal is doing nothing wrong, in fact under its current contstaints any relaxation in taxes would not be allowed by the EU.
If every UK car I saw was fully legal taxed and insured I might be more sympathetic but this is far from the case as anyone who looks at some of the vehicles seen around carvoeiro can confirm.
Those who break even UK laws like to hide behind their views on Portuguese taxation but probably would be just as bad in the UK.

[keela]

EU laws allow each member country to set its own tax regime which is why the UK has different VAT rules to others.
Portugal is doing nothing wrong, in fact under its current contstaints any relaxation in taxes would not be allowed by the EU.
If every UK car I saw was fully legal taxed and insured I might be more sympathetic but this is far from the case as anyone who looks at some of the vehicles seen around carvoeiro can confirm.
Those who break even UK laws like to hide behind their views on Portuguese taxation but probably would be just as bad in the UK.

Totally agree with you.

[cereza]

Although keela and EMM are perfectly correct I do sympathise with Sunman's view.
The problem is the stupidity and short-sightedness of the Portuguese law makers.
Just like with the toll situation they stick on a ridiculous, ill conceived tax which results in a limited revenue whereas if they raised their revenue from say a road tax instead of high purchase tax and tolls they would increase the volume and end up far better off. Who knows - they could even try to attract a car manufacturer into the country to boost the economy. A large increase in the number of cars on the road would also boost employment in many areas.

[EMM]

Portugal does have some car manufacturing and motor part plants, it has spent millions of euros attracting the companies to Portugal.
But unlike the UK these plants do not produce volume popular cars or pestige vehicles that can be exported around the world.
Thus cheaper cars would result in a greater imbalance in the balance of payments as even more would be imported. A situation that Portugal just cannot afford.
It would just be yet another inflationary factor in the economy.

The arguement that the tax on non PT reg cars is too high has merit but how many of the vehicles we are discussing would be officially imported even with a lower tax.
Only those who have something to worry about need be concerned.

[widge]

I honestly don't know why people get so uptight about this, Britain and Portugal are part of the EU. If Eastern Europeans can move themselves and their families into Britain, move into a free house and start claiming benefits why should it be that folk can't drive around Europe in their cars without going through endless paperwork to do so?

If I drive from London to Yorkshire I don't have to change my number plate to a white rose and put a 'hey up duck' sticker across my windshield, why all the fuss? [/quot


Stupid comment about the drive into Yorkshire but "all the fuss" is about legality. When you import a car from Germany to the Uk you have by law to re-register it onto English plates. The same as here. English plates have to be changed for Portuguese ones. Yes, Britain and Portugal are part of the EU and eastern europeans do move themselves into the Uk and immediately claim every benefit going but that is down to the Government not imposing strict criteria for claiming. Which is why every legitimate UK taxpayer is paying out for all the scroungers in the UK. I take it you have no problem with law breakers? I, along with other expats who have gone down the same route don't see why we should pay to be legal and not break laws but others think it is Ok to do so.

the issue I have is with the ridiculous taxes Portugal applies to the purchase of cars, you can buy new German cars in the UK 20%-25% cheaper than Portugal, why should that be?
we all know that the average wage in Portugal is significantly less than the UK and I think it's grossly unfair that the locals get so ripped off and can do nothing about it, I think it would be very fair and right in an efficient EU if Mr & Mrs Gomes could travel to UK, buy a car and bring it back to Lagoa, what's going on now is extortion.

These issues are but tiny examples of a much bigger problem namely, how can member countries have a common currency without political and fiscal union?

I agree with sunman; it looks, feels & probably is ridiculous to impose these extraordinary barriers & tariffs to an otherwise free market just to protect national interests...........but that's the way the "experiment" was set up.

[Bruce Wallis]

There are a few, if small, benefits from car owning in Portugal.

Once bought and taxed, Portuguese registered cars are liable to far lower annual road taxes than we are, car insurance is cheaper, and the MOT is bi-annual, and only costs E28 every 2 years.

[sunman]

thanks Widge, Cereza for expanding the debate a bit, the points you make have much merit

if all property owners on the Algarve paid the full IVA inclusive rates for the goods and services they received (and by the way I defy anyone to come out and say they've never done a cash in hand deal with anyone down here) then the workers would pay full income tax and countries like Greece, Portugal & Spain would have more money in their coffers to pay off their debts to the EU

there are countless more 'law breakers' giving a plumber €100 and a bottle of beer for fixing their leaking pool pipes than there are people driving around in UK reg cars, you're chasing the wrong people

and if the cost of living was reduced for the locals, eg. a fairer price for new cars, lower cost of petrol and free local motorway driving then they would have less reason to avoid paying their taxes, n'est-ce pas?

[EMM]

Thats the same the whole world over including the UK.
But these views will not hold any water with the GNR or the Transitos if you are stopped in your overstayed UK reg car or any other nationality for that matter.
The world we live in is far from perfect and if you want a quiet life stay out of trouble and avoid becoing an obvious target.
Don,t worry about those things you can do nothing about.
Portugals policies and rules about car tax being just one of them.

[keela]

if you want a quiet life stay out of trouble and avoid becoing an obvious target.


Good advice from EMM.