WATER AGAIN

[joanne]

This time last year I put a posting on about a water bill I had got which was for over a Thouand Euros, do not rent out and use the Villa about 12 weeks a year at the most, complained and was told hard luck, must have left a tap on, or someone was using the outside Taps....Told if didnt pay would be cut of and would cost a lot to have turned back on, so had no choice, since then the bills have been between 30 and 50 Euros a month, until this week had a bill for 490 Euros.....I have again complained and just keep being told the same thing, leak, theft....if it was a leak the bills would be the same every month as the leak wouldnt keep stopping for 11 months a year, any advice would be welcome.
My friend who lives on my Rd is going to check the meter everyday and send me the Readings, any thoughts on this would be helpful.
Thank Joanne

[widge]

Get a new meter.

[sunman]

sounds like you have something drastically going wrong; we live here full time & ours are about €50 per month, that's showers, baths etc., no irrigation. And I notice a man at the end of the drive having a look now and again so I assume the meters get read regularly.

the other week I was taking my dog for a walk round Clube Golfemar,the gardener there had a hose coming off the top (pool) level, either filling the pool or watering the grounds up there; the hose went along the pathway & under a villa's fence to their standpipe! nobody was around to ask so whether this was by arrangement or not but it looked suspicious.

[steve]

Getting a new meter would remove the possibility of a meter error but it really does not sound as if the problem stems from this given the isolated instances of a high reading. Was the high reading this year for exactly the same period as last year? It rather points to somebody stealing water from your property.

A leak is not feasible for the reason you state. Do you have a gardener who waters for you? If so it is possible that the hose was left on but it seems odd that it occurs two years running at the same time. The only other possibility is that the pool was left filling for too long but it would have to be for quite a long time to run up the sort of bills you are talking about.

Can you put locks on the outside taps or exchange these for lockable ones? The gardener and poolman would need a key but it would limit access to any casual thief.

Regular meter readings are a bit of a pain but at least these could help narrow down the timing and thus perhaps the cause of the problem.

Irrigation affects my usage a lot (from €20 a month in winter to €250 in July including replenishing pool water lost through evaporation) but you do not have this.

[matoserrao99]

Hi,
we recently re-filled a pool took 24 hours with an hosepipe on full and the water bill was about 170euros above the average bill.
So your talking about enough water to fill 3 pools or a hosepipe running non stop for about 3 days.

We had a similar problem in the past - ours was a meter issue, the 1000's dial slipped so instead of going 1000 - 2000
it went 1000 - 3000 - 5000
If you analyse your bills and find that the hundreds, thousands etc have gone up by an exact amount this might show that this is the same for you.

Regardless i'd ask for a new meter and lock up your supply.
Best of luck and please do post the answer

[joanne]

We do have a Pool and Irrigation(small plot), what I cannot understand is why it happens the same month both years, last years was over a thousand Euros, I have got all the Bills here and am awaiting the readings from my friend then will write again, perhaps we need a new meter....Will post any ans I get but not holding up much hope. Thanks for replies so far.

[steve]

Without being too cynical or unkind do you have a neighbour with a big cisterna? A handy way of filling up for summer usage. I can't really see why a meter fault would occur just in one month a year.

[joeysoap]

you use the villa for approx 12 weeks per year. does the spike in usage occur during any of those 12 weeks?
during the periods you are NOT in residence how do you account for the water usage ie if no one is in residence the invoice should be for a very low figure.
getting the meter read and keeping an eye on it is a good way of at least trying to find out where the problem lies.

and the invoice is also made up of water disposal and waste disposal, which is in addition to the actual water usage cost.

[steve]

The normal monthly figure quoted by Joanne is pretty reasonable given that she has irregation and a pool. In the summer the water level of an uncovered pool drops quite noticably through evaporation. She may well have a septic tank or fossa and therefore not have to pay drainage charges. In my old property I did not pay drainage charges and I notice a big difference being on the mains drainage now. Last month I used 56 cubic metres of water at a cost of €87.13 but the addition for drainage was €33.29 and the refuse charge was €17.13

As a matter of principle I objecct to paying drainage charges on the water which goes through the irregation system (ie the lion's share in summer) because it does not go down the drains which the camara has to maintain but in effect I have to look at it as just another revenue raiser!

[sam]

As a matter of principle I objecct to paying drainage charges on the water which goes through the irregation system (ie the lion's share in summer) because it does not go down the drains which the camara has to maintain but in effect I have to look at it as just another revenue raiser!

Yes, but then a lot of the waste down the drain is not water....
We are not resident and water bills can be as low as a 3 euros. Even when the villa is in use and we are topping up the pool the bill is only usually 20 - 30 euros. It definitely sounds like someone is syphoning your water. Can you box in & lock the outside tap away somehow?

[Gambrinus]

The issue I have with the water system is the scaling of the consumption. Basically, the meter readings need to be accurate and regular to avoid a massive inflation of the water bill. This is an example of the price difference on a 200m3 consumption if the readings is not done correctly:

Water price brackets per m3
0-5 0,44 € (5 units)
5-15 0,72 € (10 units)
15-25 0,99 € (10 units)
25-50 1,94 € (25 units)
50< 2,40 € (remainder)

Waste price brackets per m3
0-5 0,37 €
5-15 0,54 €
15-25 0,59 €
25-50 0,64 €
50< 0,69 €

The high bracket is the key: Split over 2 months only 50m3 of the 100m3 fall into the top bracket. In one single reading this bracket covers 150m3 of the 200m3

Result: A single invoice will amount to €560,45 whereas two invoices would amount to €251,45 each. The same amount of water in the same timeframe ends up costing €57.55 more.

This is why it is imperative that you check the meter readings against the invoices and, more importantly, send back any invoices that are low or estimates. The difference between the low/estimate and the next reading can be a nice premium for the town council if your total consumption breaks the 50m3 mark.

Assuming that, like everyone else around here in the summer time, the readers are on their much deserved holiday in August, it is probable that the meters were not read once or even twice and an estimate invoice was issued instead. Check the detail on the invoice, especially if it falls short of your usual usage.

Rant over.

[e-richard]

Rant over.

Not a rant. It was very useful and helpful info - thanks.

With my meter being indoors and inaccessible while guests are present, I suddenly understand why the bills vary so widely.

[steve]

Gambrinus makes a good point. I discovered when I once queried a bill that the billing date can be quite widely different from the date that the meter reading was taken. I forget the exact details now and it was in the days of a two monthly billing period but at that time the reading could have been some weeks old. Presumably meters are now read once a month but unfortunately the timing of this to your billing date can make a difference to the overall price paid. As a resident I am able to read my meter each month on or before the 15th of each month and phone it in to the Aguas section of the Camara. This reading is then used for the billing charge.

It is theoretically possible that Joanne's problem stems from the Camara reading her meter once a year and using estimated readings for the other 11 months but I must admit that I thought the Camara took regular readings and the bills should show this. I also would have thought that the Camara would have explained this when the charge was queried the first time if it were the case. I thought that the figure quoted by Joanna was lowish given she had irregation and also taking account of this there should be winter/summer variations unless she simply leaves it on all year round.

With new buildings the meters for water and electricity have to be placed on the external front wall of the property so that the are accessible to meter readers all the time.

[joeysoap]

my meter is accessible as its an outside cabinet, but its definitely not read every month. was not read in July or August. bills were for the minimum amount €2.01.
I assume that the 'solid' waste also escalates with the other two scales.

[steve]

Worth checking that your meter is still working. One of mine broke once and the usage was not registered and the minimum figure bill was issued. On the basis that I might get stuck for some high estimate if the situation continued I reported the fault to the Aguas. I thought it might take a couple of weeks for the notification to get processed but no they came the next day and fitted a new meter!