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2009....All doom and gloom??
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SharkHunter
- CVO Regular
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:42 am
2009....All doom and gloom??
After what has been rather depressing news recently with regard to the economic downturn and the collapse of Sterling, I wanted to start a thread to gauge people's opinions on what 2009 will bring in terms of holiday rentals.
The weak pound makes visiting continental Europe a much more expensive option for British holiday-makers. I have researched the internet and have found that even in times of economic crisis us Brits still find the money necessary to escape the drizzly isles for a a weak or two of Mediterranean sun. With upcoming new developments and the increase in low-cost carrier flights from the UK in to Faro, it seems that perhaps, just perhaps the Algarve will not be hit quite so hard as other holiday destinations.
I realise that posting this thread on Carvoeiro.com will no doubt attract the ever-rosy and optimistic view of Carvoeiro residents and home owners, however I am interested to know what people's opinion is of 2009 rental prospects.
I would be also interested to know how owners are making their property more attractive to potential renters in this time of uncertainty.
The Sharkhunter
Post edited in line with forum advertising rules
The weak pound makes visiting continental Europe a much more expensive option for British holiday-makers. I have researched the internet and have found that even in times of economic crisis us Brits still find the money necessary to escape the drizzly isles for a a weak or two of Mediterranean sun. With upcoming new developments and the increase in low-cost carrier flights from the UK in to Faro, it seems that perhaps, just perhaps the Algarve will not be hit quite so hard as other holiday destinations.
I realise that posting this thread on Carvoeiro.com will no doubt attract the ever-rosy and optimistic view of Carvoeiro residents and home owners, however I am interested to know what people's opinion is of 2009 rental prospects.
I would be also interested to know how owners are making their property more attractive to potential renters in this time of uncertainty.
The Sharkhunter
Post edited in line with forum advertising rules
Honestly, we are not banking on a good year at all.
We and fellow owners on our development have got the " peak " August weeks booked . But as most of these were taken when the £ was much higher than now nothing can be taken for granted.
The " cheap" long weekend may be thing of the past, combination of higher airfares and Euro.
The Irish who have been very active booking ahead
have not been seen yet due to the downturn in Ireland
What could we see ?
Bookings for maximum occupancy ( and more ) as holiday makers seek to reduce the cost/head.
Families taking shorter holiday 7/10 days rather than 14.
The temptation is to discount, but then you run the risk of attracting the wrong business. ( single sex groups ).
The cost of accommodation when booked directly with the owner in £ has not gone up BUT it is the cost of food, drink, car hire, entertainment and leisure, ALL in euros which are the problem.
So get ready for a poor year and then you won,t be dissapointed.
We and fellow owners on our development have got the " peak " August weeks booked . But as most of these were taken when the £ was much higher than now nothing can be taken for granted.
The " cheap" long weekend may be thing of the past, combination of higher airfares and Euro.
The Irish who have been very active booking ahead
have not been seen yet due to the downturn in Ireland
What could we see ?
Bookings for maximum occupancy ( and more ) as holiday makers seek to reduce the cost/head.
Families taking shorter holiday 7/10 days rather than 14.
The temptation is to discount, but then you run the risk of attracting the wrong business. ( single sex groups ).
The cost of accommodation when booked directly with the owner in £ has not gone up BUT it is the cost of food, drink, car hire, entertainment and leisure, ALL in euros which are the problem.
So get ready for a poor year and then you won,t be dissapointed.
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Michael Crane
- CVO Oracle
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I suppose because I am a holiday-maker and not a villa owner that I cannot vote in this poll; however, I would like to add my comments.
I am 'fortunate' in that I don't have to worry about the upkeep or running costs of a villa in Carvoeiro, but I do have the worry that my 'owner' may find it tough going and decide to either increase his rental costs or sell up and cash in, both of which don't bode well for me.
But, I do think that running costs etc will come down as management services discover that some owners are either opting out or selling up - both depriving them of income. When faced with a choice of earn less or earn nothing most sensible people will opt for earn less.
How many owners have full rentals for next year? Would increasing their rent put holiday-makers off and send them elsewhere? I think you are all (mostly all) faced with a dilemma and will have to carefully balance your needs against what your 'tenants' are willing to pay. Although we need each other, we, the holiday-makers do have options - we can pick where we stay and with whom and within our budget, you, the owners, are faced with fewer options.
All that said, Sharen and me budget every year for our time in Carvoeiro, and, although we're going through a lean time at the moment due to Sharen's redundancy, we have every intention of returning next year and to the same villa. Our owner has been good to us over the last few years and we'll continue to support him in the future. We might have to cut down from 14/15 days to 7/10 days but we will continue coming.
I am 'fortunate' in that I don't have to worry about the upkeep or running costs of a villa in Carvoeiro, but I do have the worry that my 'owner' may find it tough going and decide to either increase his rental costs or sell up and cash in, both of which don't bode well for me.
But, I do think that running costs etc will come down as management services discover that some owners are either opting out or selling up - both depriving them of income. When faced with a choice of earn less or earn nothing most sensible people will opt for earn less.
How many owners have full rentals for next year? Would increasing their rent put holiday-makers off and send them elsewhere? I think you are all (mostly all) faced with a dilemma and will have to carefully balance your needs against what your 'tenants' are willing to pay. Although we need each other, we, the holiday-makers do have options - we can pick where we stay and with whom and within our budget, you, the owners, are faced with fewer options.
All that said, Sharen and me budget every year for our time in Carvoeiro, and, although we're going through a lean time at the moment due to Sharen's redundancy, we have every intention of returning next year and to the same villa. Our owner has been good to us over the last few years and we'll continue to support him in the future. We might have to cut down from 14/15 days to 7/10 days but we will continue coming.
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Michael Crane
- CVO Oracle
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Why would it attract the 'wrong business'? Many owners have a loyal and known customer base, offering them a discount would go a long way to having them return rather than go elsewhere.EMM wrote:...The temptation is to discount, but then you run the risk of attracting the wrong business. ( single sex groups )....
Micheal,
Fortunately we have not had this experience but friends who have accepted groups ( usually under 25 ) have had experiences which range from broken doors/windows, damaged furniture. soiled bedding etc etc.
OK so you have your security deposit but you still have to get everything ready for your next booking.
We have decided NOT to take parties like this.
Our worst experiences have been a family with 2 children who let them run wild and a party of 50 year old ladies celebrating a 50th .
cest la vie
Fortunately we have not had this experience but friends who have accepted groups ( usually under 25 ) have had experiences which range from broken doors/windows, damaged furniture. soiled bedding etc etc.
OK so you have your security deposit but you still have to get everything ready for your next booking.
We have decided NOT to take parties like this.
Our worst experiences have been a family with 2 children who let them run wild and a party of 50 year old ladies celebrating a 50th .
cest la vie
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Michael Crane
- CVO Oracle
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EMM, we treat the villa like it was our home - which it is for a week or two. We treat it with respect and care for it, but I do realise that a lot of people see it simply as a holiday home and don't care about it. We have a lot of respect for the owner and would never dream of mistreating his property.
Each time I go over I do a maintenance check for its owner. I do a complete survey of the entire property and if there's anything I can do to put it right, I do (I am a very handy person!), else I report my findings back to the owner and he then knows what's required when he does his annual inspection.
It must be a nightmare letting to strangers, and Sharen and me were complete strangers before we took on our first rental at the villa. Mind you, the owner had seen us on the webcam one cold, wet and windy Friday night, waving like windmills to anyone who might have been looking. It was this coupled with our forum membership that got us the rental of a villa normally reserved for family and friends.
My advice, if possible, is to seek bookings from forum members. They might be 'strangers' to you but you do at least have an inkling as to who they are.
PS: Don't try and poach us - we are very happy where we are.
Each time I go over I do a maintenance check for its owner. I do a complete survey of the entire property and if there's anything I can do to put it right, I do (I am a very handy person!), else I report my findings back to the owner and he then knows what's required when he does his annual inspection.
It must be a nightmare letting to strangers, and Sharen and me were complete strangers before we took on our first rental at the villa. Mind you, the owner had seen us on the webcam one cold, wet and windy Friday night, waving like windmills to anyone who might have been looking. It was this coupled with our forum membership that got us the rental of a villa normally reserved for family and friends.
My advice, if possible, is to seek bookings from forum members. They might be 'strangers' to you but you do at least have an inkling as to who they are.
PS: Don't try and poach us - we are very happy where we are.
Last edited by Michael Crane on Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SharkHunter
- CVO Regular
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A discounted price does not mean you will get groups of people looking to trash the place. I'm sure like I, most owners request the names and ages of guests as part of the booking process. So the rental price should have nothing to do with the types of guest but will have an effect on the number of enquiries.
I am still of the opinion that there will be a healthy number of holidaymakers this year as most airlines have chopped the cost by removing fuel surcharges owing to the fact that oil proces have fallen by more than 50%.
The living costs in Portugal will be something to consider as the weak Pound buys much less Sagres and Super Bock now. Perhaps a hamper full of Sagres is the answer!
I am still of the opinion that there will be a healthy number of holidaymakers this year as most airlines have chopped the cost by removing fuel surcharges owing to the fact that oil proces have fallen by more than 50%.
The living costs in Portugal will be something to consider as the weak Pound buys much less Sagres and Super Bock now. Perhaps a hamper full of Sagres is the answer!
Have you looked at the flight prices for next summer, no sign of these being reduced.
Air tax was increased in the budget.
Thomsons and other airlines have reduced their flights and departure airports in anticipation of reduced numbers.
we are all competing for a smaller number of travellers.
A very good indication is the number of hits owners get on the established owner rental sites.
These are dramatically reduced as is the number of enquiries.
This weeks algarve resident www.algarveresident.com makes interesting reading.
As owners we will all have to do what suits us, be it welocme packs, wine beer and so on.
Air tax was increased in the budget.
Thomsons and other airlines have reduced their flights and departure airports in anticipation of reduced numbers.
we are all competing for a smaller number of travellers.
A very good indication is the number of hits owners get on the established owner rental sites.
These are dramatically reduced as is the number of enquiries.
This weeks algarve resident www.algarveresident.com makes interesting reading.
As owners we will all have to do what suits us, be it welocme packs, wine beer and so on.
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Michael Crane
- CVO Oracle
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- Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 5:51 pm
- Location: Lincoln
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Welcome packs are a very good idea. Ours usually includes bread, butter and ham and cheese for supper if we arrive too late in the day to go shopping; and milk, tea, coffee, jam and cereals for breakfast. Add to this a bottle of wine, a few beers and fresh fruit and it makes all the difference.EMM wrote:..As owners we will all have to do what suits us, be it welocme packs, wine beer and so on.
Also, for winter lets . . . flannelet sheets and hot water bottles
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SharkHunter
- CVO Regular
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- Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:42 am
In all the doom and gloom I am just happy to be HEALTHY and have 3 lovely Girls, not a bad Husband and good friends, I think sometimes we all get carried away by how bad things are but if we actually look around the world, we in England are very lucky.
We have a place over there and when we bought we made sure we had enough saved to pay a lot up front, small Morg, we didnt rush into it and had very good advice "Do not buy if you are dependant on renting as you can never be sure of rental income"
All in all most people have a good life, I not noticed the spending stopped in the Trafford Centre....
We have a place over there and when we bought we made sure we had enough saved to pay a lot up front, small Morg, we didnt rush into it and had very good advice "Do not buy if you are dependant on renting as you can never be sure of rental income"
All in all most people have a good life, I not noticed the spending stopped in the Trafford Centre....
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Michael Crane
- CVO Oracle
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For us a good life was two incomes. Now we are surviving on mine alone plus a very generous £60 a week 'dole' money from Sharen.joanne wrote:....All in all most people have a good life, I not noticed the spending stopped in the Trafford Centre....
We've cut back at the moment. Well, to be more exact, Sharen has cut back - fewer shoes, tops and handbags!
Poor dear, I don't know if she'll ever get over it. 
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SharkHunter
- CVO Regular
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Thanks for your comment Joanne. You're very right to point out that life does still go on through all of this.
The advice given to you when you bought was very sound as you can not depend on rental income.
In my situation which I am sure is similar to many others I do not require the rental income to sustain my property.
By the same token it does not mean I will stand idly by and let that income slip away because it was not to be depended upon in the first place.
There are certain measures that can be taken to lessen the impact of this situation as is can be seen in every industry around the world. Rental properties are not an exception.
I'm interested to know what creative measures out there people are thinking about in order to protect their non dependable income
The advice given to you when you bought was very sound as you can not depend on rental income.
In my situation which I am sure is similar to many others I do not require the rental income to sustain my property.
By the same token it does not mean I will stand idly by and let that income slip away because it was not to be depended upon in the first place.
There are certain measures that can be taken to lessen the impact of this situation as is can be seen in every industry around the world. Rental properties are not an exception.
I'm interested to know what creative measures out there people are thinking about in order to protect their non dependable income
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shanagarry
- CVO Legend
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- Location: Craigweil-on-Sea
Bookings for 2009
We decided 2 years ago to stop renting, due mainly to the hassle factor of administering the process, security deposits etc and wrote to our loyal client base to tell them so.
From that date to this we have never had an empty week from May to October - unless we wanted to set time aside for ourselves and close family. Yes we had some dross who took the view they were paying so they were entitled to do as they pleased - that's where a good maid comes in.
Anyway, enough of all that - we have now decided to swap the UK for Portugal - put our house here on rent and move permanently to Carvoeiro. There's a little bit of 'hassle' in the meantime dealing with some planning and building work - but then we get to be where we want to be.
As for the economic downturn - sure it will impact on Portugal as well as everywhere else - unemployment in Europe will hit unprecedented levels and a lot of the 'niceties' in life will be abandoned in the short to medium term. When we emerge from this morass in 2011/12 the world will look a whole lot different and better.
In the meantime - all of you depending on rental income need to become a lot more creative in the way you market your property if you want to win a piece of the available market - its all part of the 'new' world.
From that date to this we have never had an empty week from May to October - unless we wanted to set time aside for ourselves and close family. Yes we had some dross who took the view they were paying so they were entitled to do as they pleased - that's where a good maid comes in.
Anyway, enough of all that - we have now decided to swap the UK for Portugal - put our house here on rent and move permanently to Carvoeiro. There's a little bit of 'hassle' in the meantime dealing with some planning and building work - but then we get to be where we want to be.
As for the economic downturn - sure it will impact on Portugal as well as everywhere else - unemployment in Europe will hit unprecedented levels and a lot of the 'niceties' in life will be abandoned in the short to medium term. When we emerge from this morass in 2011/12 the world will look a whole lot different and better.
In the meantime - all of you depending on rental income need to become a lot more creative in the way you market your property if you want to win a piece of the available market - its all part of the 'new' world.