How do we open a Branch Office in Portugal ?

guestt · Post by **guestt** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:28 pm

We are a UK Ltd Company registered in Companies House and pay UK Corporation Tax in the UK. We wanted to place a few staff in an office in Portugal with 2 PCs, phone and fax so that they can work from there. However, we have been told that if you rent office space in Portugal you have to pay your taxes in Portugal. This seems a mystery as, if this is the case, how do the large Tour Operators manage with their staff? I fail to believe that if Thomsons, for example, place a few reps in a few square metres of office space in a back office in Lagoa with a phone etc, that they would have to transfer all their business to Portugal and pay taxes there.

I have also heard of "companies" that register their businesses in Spain (in order to pay less tax) and open "branch offices" in Portugal where they operate from.

Has anyone got any knowledge of this situation as I cannot seem to find anyone who has the solution. I have contacted a Portuguese accountant but got the same answer.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Graham · Post by **Graham** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:44 pm

Try Blacktower Financial Management for advice - as well as being rather good at tax etc they have offices in Portugal and the UK and therefore their advice is probably sound.

www.blacktowerfm.com
01372 844344

Graham

td · Post by td » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:33 pm

Please share your findings and I will do likewise. I intend operating part of my business from Portugal in the coming months.

I do not need a shop front or anything that will make my presence apparent but I will operate within the legal framework. If the cost is punitive I will have to review so I would like to hear of other's efforts in that direction.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:49 pm

Many thanks Graham I shall try them in the morning and let everybody know if it is possible.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:03 pm

ask yourself ..how many world beating portuguese companies can you think of...coreect ..none..because they make it as difficult as possible to run any business here.

i dont why you wish to have a buisness here..but do think about spain..they are more go ahead than here

kteee · Post by **kteee** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:34 am

totally agree guest, some of the rules and regs here are completely unbelievable, and you get different answers from different people in the same dept which means that you turn up with what you have been told is the right papers only to be told to come back with something else.

a very accurate comment I heard recently is that they don't just change the goalposts - they don't even tell you where they are

come out here to be employed, self-employed or retired - but don't try and set up a business unless you have a lot of time and money to waste

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:05 am

i can only echo a piece on newsnight recently about a uk firm who opened a branch in france (this the country who invented the word entrepeneur!) .

when asked by jeremy faxman for his advice about anyone wanting to open a business in france.....his reply

LEAVE

i am afraid such succinct advice also applies here.

kteee · Post by **kteee** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:49 pm

Prime example to illustrate my point - this happened to me this morning!

We are trying to get a contract mobile instead of using the pay as you go ones. We are dealing with one of the biggest mobile providers in Portugal, and over the past 2 weeks we have given them reams of information - each one, we are told, is the final piece required.

I was expecting the phone to be delivered today, but when I phoned to ask what time it would arrive, they told me that Lisbon had declined our application because my husband's fiscal number is on a printed piece of paper from the finanças - and not on a plastic card.

We have never been issued with the plastic card, although we have requested it many times over the past 3 years, and the sales rep admitted that her boss, who is Portuguese, has also never been issued with a plastic card! Nevertheless, they will not accept our application unless we have our non-existent card!

Just a tiny example of the many, many frustrations involved in living and working here........

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:26 pm

i am afraid the portuguese are the only ones who can cope with this...it is hard enough just to be in business (anywhere) getting work and getting paid, all this beaucatic nonsense is not needed and beyond the realm of many from northern europe...i have been here 15 years and seen many people say from the uk who had good businesses there and would have done the same here, creating jobs and wealth.....most of them after a while just go away and say no thanks.

portugal has had too much money from the e.u insulating them from economic realities...i hate to say it but what they need here is a massive recession to teach them the value of business and more importantly the removal of unnessary red tape.

a friend brought me a glossy brochure from bournemoth..advertising and promotting those who run businesses to go there...help is offered with everything....let me say i have NEVER EVER seen one brochure from any algarve camara doing the same

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:29 pm

it was once said that in russia people spent half their working time queing for food....i think in portugal people spend half their working time queing for little bits of beaucatic paper

guset101 · Post by **guset101** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:07 am

IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE, GO HOME THEN. OR ARE YOU FOREIGNERS RUNNING AWAY FROM SOMETHING IN YOUR OWN COUNTRYS
ENGLAND IS NOT PERFECT.

kteee · Post by **kteee** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:45 am

No one said England is perfect, or that we didn't like it here, but people planning to come over here have to be aware that there are a lot of difficulties to overcome. Portugal is not perfect either.

Portugal does not welcome you with open arms or do anything to assist foreigners who want to contribute, invest, integrate, create wealth and jobs, pay tax etc etc. Our place out here is to be in the wrong!

Unfortunately many people with skills and money to invest do go back to their own country as they find things just too difficult out here, maybe that is the idea! A lot of the obstacles are totally illogical and unnecessary from our perspective.

From the number of ex-pats from many different countries that have been here for a long time, it is obvious that you can learn to cope with it - but you have to be prepared for a long hard slog to get anywhere.

I probably sound very cynical, but despite all the problems I am still happy here and don't intend to go back - you just need to be realistic

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 11:42 am

iit seems from the numbers of portuguese who live in the uk and far far exceed the numbers of english living here (norfolk alone has est 20000 portugese living there) that it it is not easy in portugal to conduct any business here.....i have spoken to portuguese and they tell me the same....which is a pity since i wonder how much wealth could this country produce if allowed to and not prevented by some camara officails who sole fiunction is to stop and prevent

a portugese man who lived in south afirica says the problem here is that is no creativity here....because anyone with a bit of get and go is soon knocked down.

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:32 pm

Kteee is just being realistic and honest..and I thought thats what the original questioner would have wanted

?
Algarve can seem like a little bit of paradise at times,whether on holiday or in residence but when it comes to bureaucracy..oh boy!!
as Kteee explained with her mobile phone..it can have you tearing your hair out......
and its no good 'guset'(

) 101 shouting..thats no good to anyone.People who are intending to open business in Portugal want the facts...and its no good pussyfooting around it!
We were lucky, in our time there, that we 'took over' an established business and everything was set in place for us. We had extremely good accountants that did all for us, making sure everything was correct and above board.
But we did have some very frustrating and worrying times with officialdom....one example is in my little story on the Corner called 'Left in Charge'.....when I was confronted by men from the local Camara( nearly slipped up then & said mafia)....and if 'Guset101' is Portuguese.which he could be ..as he calls us all foreigners..he'll know very well what Kteee& myself are talking about

Don't kid yourself..that if you're going to Algarve to work & live..thats its all gonna be a piece of cake...cos it aint!

p.s. But Id still do it all again

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:48 pm

yes, its a nice place but terrible for business...and we havent even started writin about being paid..a newspaper article once said that in Porto if they say they will pay you tommorrow ..they do...in lLisbon ..it might be late..but in the Algarve you stand more than an even chance of losing money

How do we open a Branch Office in Portugal ?

How do we open a Branch Office in Portugal ?

Business in Portugal