How do we open a Branch Office in Portugal ?

biffa · Post by **biffa** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:42 am

Here is a good example of officialdom.

I received a demand to pay Euros 1,122.30 in assumed unpaid IVA relating to the tax year 2001 for a company of which the demand stated I was "socio gerente" (owner manager).

I had transferred the shares and resigned as manager on 8th September 1993 but it cost me Euros 17.25 to obtain a Registry Cerificate to prove that fact to the satisfaction of the tax department who hadn't bothered to check out who ran the company before they wrote to me.

Bit frustrating really!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:34 am

i am afraid that td has no idea of what it is to run a business here....its nothing to do with being "English" and please we do not heed some history lesson about what the "english" did in Ireland..that has nothing to do with the issue here that this country ...even for the Poruguese is a very difficult place to conduct a business.....many of the problems quoted re the firm in silves and their problems of being paid are not english but Portuguese who have come back from s.africa..

perhaps if you do move here on a permanent basis you may well come to appreciate the problems and advice given here.

td · Post by td » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:07 pm

This is a global reply:

I stick by my assertion that the 'English' disease prevails - whingeing and moaning instead of getting on with the job. If you know the bureaucracy exists then make an allowance for it - work with it or around it because there's little or no chance you will change it.

Be you any nationality other than English and you are frustrated with the Portuguese process then you have succumbed - are you a winner or you just making up the numbers/one of the crowd

.

As for the suggestion that what the English did in Ireland was my motive for writing (a typical English remark) - that has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue. I have lived in the UK on and off for 38 years (incl. 13 years in the RAF) and have no problem with the decent hard working English at all - I do have a problem with the negative minority who think they have a god given right to control the Universe and for all the rest of us fall in line with their demands and if we don't then we must face the wrath of the English football hooligan and/or Blair.

If, as suggested the Portuguese have a problem with the system then do what they do - work round it but don't whinge

kteee · Post by **kteee** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:18 pm

I think the genuine experiences of people who have actually made the move out here are very relevant to readers of the forum, at least we have done it. Lots of people talk about it but never actually get round to giving it a go - and no, this isn't a criticism of people who don't, merely an observation.

I don't see that any of the posters are 'whingeing', but telling it like it is.

By the way, if what the English did in Ireland has nothing to do with the issue - why include it?

Veritas · Post by **Veritas** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:00 pm

What the English did to the Irish is no different from what they did in countless other countries. It's just that the Irish have longer memories.

And the real success story has indeed been the Irish economy in recent years, due in no small part to the huge amount of funding poured in by the EU. No wonder Ireland initially voted against enlargement - it signalled the end of the gravy train.

Suspect Portugal did very well out of EU funding too - could be different in the future

td · Post by td » Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:05 pm

kteee - the reference to what the English did in Ireland was introduced by the post at 10.34 this morning - not yours truly. It is of no significance.

Regarding the move to Portugal you have made - I am envious and will be doing it as soon as I can. I bought the property 5 years ago and can't wait to make the permanent move. Just a little matter of running a business in a labour controlled environment where I have a lot of mouths to feed and pockets to line - through a punitive tax and bureaucratic system that makes Portugal look like paradise.

You lucky people

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:14 pm

oh well td we look forward to hearing your super business success story here
sometime soon.......after many many years living here your business success will be the envy of us all

as for the portuguese working "round" the system...this sadly means they often have to pay fines,....spend hours waiting for bits of paper...or give someone a backhander to get a job done

we look forward to hearing how you get on

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:20 pm

by the way td i have reread your first post...it was you who raised the "irish" parallel.....we were discussing Portugal....as for the people complaining about portugal 23 years ago they are right...i have lived here 14 years and still do not have mains water,,not tarmac..not mains drainage....in fact having lived in africa many years standards there were and are still better than some places in Portugal

td · Post by td » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:11 pm

You really do amaze me:

1. The Irish parallel - I made the point about 'spirit' and the ability to want to get things done. If you can't work that out you should really take stock.

2. No water, no road - buy some luggage and move or are you also missing the point?

3. My business will succeed, as it does here in the UK because I will ensure it does. There is no magic formula just sheer determination - easy really.

The system is there to be challenged and it appears to me that all of you have given in - a bit like a certain national football team...........

kteee · Post by **kteee** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:25 pm

Sorry td, successful businesses do not just come down to sheer determination. We had 2 successful businesses in the uk, and although we are doing fine out here and are both really busy, it takes a bit more than that.

We have not 'given in', but as I said before you have to have experience out here to be able to comment. Try challenging the finanças out here - it doesn't work.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:46 pm

TD will be telling you all To Get a Grip next - don't forget he was in the Forces for 13 years - unfortunately it can make some,not all, arrogant beyond belief. What TD hasnt realised yet through luck most probably is that life controls us and he won't be able to control everything forever!

td · Post by td » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:47 pm

kteee - I hear what you are saying and agree that unless you have done it or tried to do it you are not in a position to comment - accepted. but there is a way to beat it and it takes ...............................

patience and planning................. I know people who have mastered it and prospered because they were determined........................ that's it.

PS. I made the point in my very first posting, on this topic, that I do not need a high street presence - and in the end maybe I alter my view but at present - there's no need.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:17 pm

I think td is obviously just very bitter towards the English and that is reflected in his (?) posts.

I really don't think td can comment on running a business in Portugal as he has not done it. So basically, what td has said really is of no relevance to this post at all.

I am interested to hear people's stories of running businesses in Portugal, whether they are English or whatever. And I also do believe that it is very difficult to set up any business in a foreign country but more difficult to set up a business in Portugal than the UK.

So if anyone has any more stories, please tell them........

td · Post by td » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:56 pm

Repetition seems to be your only answer - for the final time I know I have not set up and run a business in Portugal but I have done my homework with the help of many friends who have done it before me.

I have stood in the long queues and been through the waiting for the various clerks to finish their conversations with colleagues. I have endured but managed the many hours of waiting. The errors in documents, the diversions to other offices and the misleading instructions are all part of the process.

So please unless you have anything original to say - don't bother replying.

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:06 pm

Although I dont agree with all that td says........when we had our business there..we were told by a German friend..a business man who had lived there some 12 years or more..that we were too 'soft'..not ruthless enough....too amiable..
when H told him the wages he was paying to our workers..he said'too much'.....pay less and make them work for a bonus......
td ..although we dont have your business 'acumen'....you have to battle against many things.......and we lost ours through the recession....many went under in that time.....and we werent paid what was owed.....2 big ones..1 at £3000.....another over £2000.....but we didnt whinge..had to start again....it was very tough as we had next to nothing..but finally we landed on our feet again
but........you just never know whats around the corner..you cant be complacent.......

How do we open a Branch Office in Portugal ?

Officialdom

It must be contagious

Get Real

The only way

Goodnight