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cleaning-lady
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guest 48
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eco/spider
I feel disgusted at the attitude of paying the going rate in Portugal! 
Should we in the richer parts of the EEC be paying peanuts to these,in general, decent hardworking people?
In richer parts of Europe: Germany ,Holland,England etc would have to pay at least 3 times the 'going rate' unless of course they are Portuguese migrants looking for work!
Have you fat arsed lot lost the ability to use a hoover or mop? If only you could see yourselves as I see you right now!
Dont forget,some time ago I raised the point of kids working in shoe factories in Portugal for piss poor wages and obviously at the governments behest!!!
Ellie I think you are right but afraid your concern is wasted on this bloodylot.bit like pissing in the wind
Should we in the richer parts of the EEC be paying peanuts to these,in general, decent hardworking people?
In richer parts of Europe: Germany ,Holland,England etc would have to pay at least 3 times the 'going rate' unless of course they are Portuguese migrants looking for work!
Have you fat arsed lot lost the ability to use a hoover or mop? If only you could see yourselves as I see you right now!
Dont forget,some time ago I raised the point of kids working in shoe factories in Portugal for piss poor wages and obviously at the governments behest!!!
Ellie I think you are right but afraid your concern is wasted on this bloodylot.bit like pissing in the wind
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Guest
Well meaning and intentioned you may be, spider, but your grasp of economics and market economies leaves a bit to be desired. Everything is relative to where you are.
If the going rate for a job in a country is 3 euros and you pay 5 euros, then that person is relatively well off. The fact that it is less than that person would get in your country is because the cost of living is higher in your country.
If you go to Portugal and you think you should pay the going rate applicable in your country. Fine. And a Portuguese comes over to England - should he pay the Portuguese rate over here to people he employs, or the UK rate.
Now if you think there should be a total harmonisation of standards of living, costs, wages etc throughout Europe/world then of course that is a different debate... think there used to be a culture that aspired to that.. was it called communism?
As for the fat arsed using a mop - I'm sure the cleaning maid would prefer to have the opportunity to earn her 3/5 euros, rather than be jobless and listen to me out with the hoover
If the going rate for a job in a country is 3 euros and you pay 5 euros, then that person is relatively well off. The fact that it is less than that person would get in your country is because the cost of living is higher in your country.
If you go to Portugal and you think you should pay the going rate applicable in your country. Fine. And a Portuguese comes over to England - should he pay the Portuguese rate over here to people he employs, or the UK rate.
Now if you think there should be a total harmonisation of standards of living, costs, wages etc throughout Europe/world then of course that is a different debate... think there used to be a culture that aspired to that.. was it called communism?
As for the fat arsed using a mop - I'm sure the cleaning maid would prefer to have the opportunity to earn her 3/5 euros, rather than be jobless and listen to me out with the hoover
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Ellie
- CVO Oracle
- Posts: 8886
- Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:16 pm
- Location: Londoner in the Wolds,Lincs
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Im sticking my neck out now but.....
Guest youre obviously coming from a comfortable well -heeled position..all clinical facts.....
Im still angry at the way this topic opened ...to me it smacks of the 'slave market'.....touting for custom for a maid...whereas ..if she had a decent living wage in the first place ..she wouldnt need all those 'extra' jobs!
You may be cleverer with words than me Guest.....and of course the 'maid'..as you call her'would rather be employed than have no wage at all...but it dont make it right 
Guest youre obviously coming from a comfortable well -heeled position..all clinical facts.....
Im still angry at the way this topic opened ...to me it smacks of the 'slave market'.....touting for custom for a maid...whereas ..if she had a decent living wage in the first place ..she wouldnt need all those 'extra' jobs!
You may be cleverer with words than me Guest.....and of course the 'maid'..as you call her'would rather be employed than have no wage at all...but it dont make it right
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Guest
Of course it's all relative..my daughter is out here right now and working in a Carvoeiro pub for 3.5 Euro an hour....but she's happy because she can buy a super three course meal for 7.5 Euro.....now in Uk she gets £5.5 an hour but she is pushed to buy a (good) three course meal for £11...simple economics ....and ask any of these complainers why they come here..they will tell you the weather / the lovely people and the low cost of living....!!!!!...Why is China booming.....because everybody and their dog are manufacturing there,...why...because labor rates are one tenth of the UK......Thats life and the way it is....It used to be Hong Kong ..and how they complain now as there is NO manufacturing there...Priced themselves out of the market...all gone to china.
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Marcus & Spencius
Greetings citizens! May I introduce my good self, citizen Marcus, and my business partner, citizen Spencius! We are delighted to see that the slave trade is still alive and kicking in Lusitania, in spite of the collapse of the Roman Empire. We are always keen to hear about new opportunities for human exploitation, and are seriously thinking of moving out to the Algarve. Furthermore, we have a host of fat, porcine clients from Germania, Hollandia and Britannia who find even turning a door handle a real challenge, and are always on the lookout for people who will work hard for very little return. Mind you, they are very discerning, so make sure your slaves have good strong teeth.
So roll up, roll up for the Marcus and Spencius grand opening slave auction, coming soon to Carvoeiro-dot-comicus!
Personally citizens, I'd rather be thrown to the lions than work for you lot!
So roll up, roll up for the Marcus and Spencius grand opening slave auction, coming soon to Carvoeiro-dot-comicus!
Personally citizens, I'd rather be thrown to the lions than work for you lot!
Ellie - I understand you anger but think you may have misunderstood the opening part of the topic.
The cleaning lady is obviously self employed and currently does not have as many clients as she would like. Therefore the original poster was simply stating that a good contractor was available and that she came recommended. I think it is the fact that she is a 'cleaning lady' rather than a skilled carpenter or plumber that has created the accusations of slavery.
It is only therefore natural for anyone who might be interested in using her services to ask what her going rate was - just as I would if someone recommended a painter or the like to me.
I do not consider the rate of 5E per hour to be slave labour in portugal. Indeed, it is probably twice as much as she would get working for a 'cleaning company' and therefore she is to be praised for her enterprise in being self employed, with the ability to choose her clients and hours of work, rather than pitied for being a slave.
Global economics is a very difficult subject, and it is naive to suggest that all workers throughout the world should be paid according to the wealth of the employer rather than by local market conditions - indeed having spent some time in Vietnam 20 years ago and Cuba 12 years ago when tourism in those countries was only just emerging it was obvious to me that wealthy tourists with no idea of the 'local rate' were actually doing more damage than good by overpaying, creating prices that only the wealthy tourists could afford and upsetting some delicately balanced local economies.
Of course there is absolutely no justification for slave labour rates anywhere in the world, but I would define this as being an amount that was not enough to live on with any degree of decency in that area, rather than a low wage compared to other parts of the world. It is these instances that have rightly led to boycotts of certain multinational companies that use third world labour and I think that to liken a cleaner in the Algarve earning 5E per hour to the desparate lives of many in less developed countries significantly weakens the real issues of true slave labour.
Sorry you are upset about it but I am sure the cleaning lady will be delighted if she can find a few new clients (and then probably employ an assistant or three on even less money ... but that is private enterprise)
Have a good weekend
Graham
The cleaning lady is obviously self employed and currently does not have as many clients as she would like. Therefore the original poster was simply stating that a good contractor was available and that she came recommended. I think it is the fact that she is a 'cleaning lady' rather than a skilled carpenter or plumber that has created the accusations of slavery.
It is only therefore natural for anyone who might be interested in using her services to ask what her going rate was - just as I would if someone recommended a painter or the like to me.
I do not consider the rate of 5E per hour to be slave labour in portugal. Indeed, it is probably twice as much as she would get working for a 'cleaning company' and therefore she is to be praised for her enterprise in being self employed, with the ability to choose her clients and hours of work, rather than pitied for being a slave.
Global economics is a very difficult subject, and it is naive to suggest that all workers throughout the world should be paid according to the wealth of the employer rather than by local market conditions - indeed having spent some time in Vietnam 20 years ago and Cuba 12 years ago when tourism in those countries was only just emerging it was obvious to me that wealthy tourists with no idea of the 'local rate' were actually doing more damage than good by overpaying, creating prices that only the wealthy tourists could afford and upsetting some delicately balanced local economies.
Of course there is absolutely no justification for slave labour rates anywhere in the world, but I would define this as being an amount that was not enough to live on with any degree of decency in that area, rather than a low wage compared to other parts of the world. It is these instances that have rightly led to boycotts of certain multinational companies that use third world labour and I think that to liken a cleaner in the Algarve earning 5E per hour to the desparate lives of many in less developed countries significantly weakens the real issues of true slave labour.
Sorry you are upset about it but I am sure the cleaning lady will be delighted if she can find a few new clients (and then probably employ an assistant or three on even less money ... but that is private enterprise)
Have a good weekend
Graham
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Guest
I know you speak sense and logic Graham but suppose I find this a very emotive subject.. and sorry but I cant divorce my emotions from this subject......
Its 'close to home for me' and suppose Im comparing it (wrongly) to times past....
perhaps Ive got it all wrong....
but as for 'guest 'saying what Portuguese will get paid here (and in rural lincs /east anglia there are quite a lot).....working on the land here..they dont get minimum wage..in fact its p--s poor.....
and remember the Chinese cocklers that drowned at Morecombe....a £1 a day..........unfair europe or not?
ellie
Its 'close to home for me' and suppose Im comparing it (wrongly) to times past....
perhaps Ive got it all wrong....
but as for 'guest 'saying what Portuguese will get paid here (and in rural lincs /east anglia there are quite a lot).....working on the land here..they dont get minimum wage..in fact its p--s poor.....
and remember the Chinese cocklers that drowned at Morecombe....a £1 a day..........unfair europe or not?
ellie
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Guest
Yes a nice glass of red wine and chill out a little.....emotions ..emotions....
One can never compare the Chinese Cocklers with the situation here...I have been blamed more than once (By the Portuguese) for pushing prices up here ( By paying more than I should) and disturbing market forces and in the end causing problems for the Portuguese.....It is difficult..I have a Japanese friend that insists on paying Japanese labor rates to their maid...and everybody is up in arms because it is unrealistic for the Portuguese to meet these prices for labor..etc etc....no my friends it it very unfair (to the Portuguese to ) continuously push up inflation in a society that has an average income of ?? Euro 10k /year........So Elle we have now turned this debate around and YOU are the villian...!!!....
Am I winding you up ???.
One can never compare the Chinese Cocklers with the situation here...I have been blamed more than once (By the Portuguese) for pushing prices up here ( By paying more than I should) and disturbing market forces and in the end causing problems for the Portuguese.....It is difficult..I have a Japanese friend that insists on paying Japanese labor rates to their maid...and everybody is up in arms because it is unrealistic for the Portuguese to meet these prices for labor..etc etc....no my friends it it very unfair (to the Portuguese to ) continuously push up inflation in a society that has an average income of ?? Euro 10k /year........So Elle we have now turned this debate around and YOU are the villian...!!!....
Am I winding you up ???.
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Guest
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Guest
Dont know but Im going down to 'Round up ' now.....few beers , and a game of pool and think I'll go and look at the young ladies in the Strip club...mind you not as good as the club Alvor...do you know the one ..the one with 200 Brazilian beauties....Ohhhh no ..sorry Ellie...Exploitation...You Bet....Do you hate me now.???