Save money and nerves

Peter Belinfante · Post by **Peter Belinfante** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:35 am

cowboy wrote:Do you pay by the bottle or the box? (to drag it home)

If you help dragging them home, we can sit down at the terras and consume one together

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:24 am

Must confess I'm a bit confused by the arguements for and against the Intermarche.

On the one hand we have people who want the prices in the Intermarche to be lowered as they (allegedly) have soared. On the other hand we have people who think we should be supporting the smaller supermarkets.

If the Intermarche was to lower it's prices then the smaller independents would become even less viable, and more would go out of business.

The Intermarche should be providing the necessary competition to force the smaller outlets to adapt and provide added value in terms of quality, price, and service. They will never compete on variety but they can compete on the supply of local produce.

I think it's a bit ambitious to speculate that this forum is going to be able to change intermarche policy. For a start the number of people reading this forum compared to those who visit the area is infinitessimly small. I think it is also a fact that we are once again talking relative values. While it may be that local residents find the prices high, visitors will probably find the prices in line with what they are used to and so will have no complaints

Gambrinus · Post by **Gambrinus** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:08 am

Anonymous wrote: I think it's a bit ambitious to speculate that this forum is going to be able to change intermarche policy. For a start the number of people reading this forum compared to those who visit the area is infinitessimly small. I think it is also a fact that we are once again talking relative values. While it may be that local residents find the prices high, visitors will probably find the prices in line with what they are used to and so will have no complaints

Ambitious it may be, but I beleive in the power of an ever-growing internet community. As far as location-related webpages go, cvo.com is already an institution in the Algarve, most sites are a long way away from the quantity and quality of information as well as the user base that this site has. That is also a result of the vision, ambition and dedication of the people who have helped cvo.com over the past years.

As past posters have stated, the Algarve is being handed down the line of holiday destinations and a mere few are fighting a loosing battle to counteract this trend. So if you do not combine feedback, ideas and find solutions, this will end in catastrophy for the tourism industry.

The internet is the best tool to link communities across the globe - so why not envision it as a possibility to change the way people think in Carvoeiro? You will be amazed at how few people actually realize that, without tourism the Algarve is lost. They may be aware of it, but they are unaware of how their individual actions are worsening the situation.

Many restaurant owners have resorted to the following formula to compensate for their losses due to shrinking number of clients:

Half the clients, double the prices.

Surely there are still enough tourists around this year who will walk in there once. They will possibly break even with that calculation but what about next year.
In theory, each customer that is ripped off will go home and tell his friends. Aside from him not coming back, his friends will probably also think twice. When I say come back, I mean come back to the Algarve - because the negative experiences are automaticaly associated to the whole Algarve, not just the one restaurant where they were ripped off.
It is said that one bad report will require 100 good reports to cancel the effect.
Most of these restaurant owners will only realize their mistake (if ever) when it is too late - no perspective, no future.

Now imagine every person coming here after their visit to carvoeiro and giving feedback...

Lets say a restaurant has 2000 clients throughout the summer, 1800 of which were unhappy for whatever reason.
They go to the review section, poll, post and let everyone know what happened. How long before the owner realizes he is up a paddle without a creek?

Apply this method to the whole service industry, because, like it or not that is what the Algarve is - a service industry.

So let every tourist and every resident know the following address: www.carvoeiro.com
Take a few minutes to give feedback on whatever you like and help improve the service quality of our beloved town.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:31 am

Well said G!
It could not have been put more clearly,succinctly!and those of us who love that little town will always do whatever we can to bolster its image..and we are by no means a minor part here on CVO.COM..a force to be reckoned with!!
Guest? youre not suggesting that we do/should not patronise the smaller local shops ?
I for one..have always preferred this to the huge cold automaton atmosphere of the Intermarche...I like the intimacy of the smaller shop..to actually talk to people there!..
and also,of course,to not 'pay throught the nose'...if youre on hol in CVO area you also save by walking to these local shops..on petrol...
I cant imagine many wanting to 'walk' to the Intermarche!
So..it isn't 'Sober as a Judge' eh Judge

and dont look as though Peter would be a sobering influence either!

But it presents a 'fun image'!

wish you all nice day....the SUN IS SHINING here in Lincs.so off to make most of it.......Bom dia

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:33 am

sorry

got carried away with above and forgot to sign in!......elliex

djprescott · Post by **djprescott** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:45 am

I certainly do not want to see the local shops going out of business, but guest does raise some interesting points regarding Intermache. If prices were reduced, surely that would put more pressure on the level of wages paid at the supermarket. Incidentally, we have been ripped off by some of the smaller shops this year ( on one occasion deliberately adding an extra item to the list) so we should not just target the supermarkets.
Dave

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:02 pm

I think we have digressed from the original post, but it it is an interesting digression and one that should be debated.

Regarding the internet, I think maybe you are a little to close to it to realise its limitations. I agree 100% that CVO.com is a superb site but it is still, and will be for some time, a pimple in the world wide web, and its ability to influence will always be limited.

There are those who look at the Algarve in general, and CVO in particular, through rose tinted glasses . It is indeed about time that they realised that they are in a service industry, and a very fickle industry at that. Many new markets are opening up as never before, consumers are getting more advenurous, and are wanting value for money.

I tell people that there are three sorts of company

One that makes things happen
One that watches while things happen
And one that wonders what happened

I suspect that many of the establishments in CVO fall into the third category, they have got complacent, greedy, and introspective in outlook. If they do not adjust then I believe that in 10 years time there will be very few desirable tourists visiting this part of the world.

And it is not just the retail outlets that are at fault, the local politicians must in no small way carry a lot of the responsibility for the decline. It is they who should be offering active encouragement and support, both visibly and financially. Tourism is the number one industry that you have. Experts should be found who know how to market this area globally.

If people in my country, N.Ireland, were able to successfully bring tourists here in the height of the troubles then anything is possible in CVO. But it needs leadership, expertise and commitment

dolphin · Post by **dolphin** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:16 pm

Thanks Guys! I am a tourist and also a great fan of CVO and it's inhabitants.
I shall take your advise. As far as going to Eastern Europe, I don't think so! Safety is also a concern of the average tourist like me.
I visit this site regularly and is one of the reasons I visit. Keep up the good work.

Gambrinus · Post by **Gambrinus** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:38 pm

You are right in saying that cvo.com is a pimple (maybe not the nicest description) on the world wide web, but we are not talking about changing the world - we are talking about Carvoeiro. This town has capacities ranging around 50000 beds, on a 2 week rotation that amounts to 100000 visitors in August, if every visitor is made aware of the existence of cvo.com there will surely be a significant increase in the online community.

I would not expect every visitor to become an active member of the forum, but if every visitor shared a few of their experiences we could create a basis for a discussion with local buisnesspeople.
Right now we are, at best, a bunch of annoying foreigners who in most eyes should go elsewhere if they are not happy with the way things are.

Rose tinted glasses:
This is not just a discussion about prices we are having here, we should name another main problem that is driving visitors away - arrogance.

That brings be to a core question, the answer to which illudes me:
How can anybody working in a service industry afford to be arrogant to a client?
Besides the quality of the food and the prices, how many people are really annoyed at the way they are treated by their waiter?
If I run a buisness in a service industry I have to be aware of one thing: The client is the king.

I cannot afford to hire staff that is moody, arrogant or unpleasant - however this is the kind of treatment you will get across the board in hotels, restaurants, bars or shops. How can this be? Even a child would understand that if I piss a client off, that client will be lost - more even, that client will also ensure that I do not gain clients through him simply by telling others of his/her experience.

This is something that a lot of people have to made aware of so that they can take their staff aside and teach them a thing or two about how to treat clients.

"What do I care?" I heard a waiter say about an annoyed customer "He does not pay my salary."
Not an infrequent remark amongst young portuguese waiters and certainly the daftest I had heard in a long time.

All I want is feedback on local buisnesses - if need be I will take it to them personally but it has to be numerous to be credible.
The local politicians have assured me they are on the same wavelength, but their hands are tied financially and politically (see today's "residents" post) so this has to be kicked off by somebody else - so get typing, get voting in the polls and help us polish up the image of this town.

heini · Post by **heini** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:09 pm

Not going into too much detail, I agree with Gambrinus. We spend about 3 months every year in Carvoeiro (Jan to March) and we have discussed the matter of less tourists, especially in the slow winter months vs. higher prices with some owners. They are worried but don't do anything about it. We too avoid places like Intermarche and do not visit restaurant and bars which adhere to the "half number of guests = double the prices" rule. If we encounter bad service we usually advise the staff/owners of the reason(s) why we wouldn't come back.
Coming from a service oriented country like Canada, we can't understand why establishments don't offer incentives to draw visitors in when times are slow. I am thinking of Happy Hours with a few free munchies, or "Early Bird" supper offers, or a cozy gas heater for the chilly evenings (still talking Winter). A good example is Smilers who stage the weekly "Canada" afternoons which draw a crowd, but on the other hand they are just as guilty when it comes to complaining and somewhat high prices, but at least the location, service and usually friendly staff make up for it.
Sorry I am in the middle ofmoving houses so dn't have time to go on....

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:21 pm

If only we could incorporate the know how..passion..ingenuity..of some of the above.......
Mr N.Irelands obvious business 'know how'...the love & passion that hieni & others show....
The judge(his experience of long residency ) & peter(with his political prowess..not sure which department).................
along with all the great membership here then....CVO would be ensured of continuing success...surely?

With G leading the way

blue eyes · Post by **blue eyes** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:30 pm

What a cheek to talk about how high prices are at Intermache from the tourist especially english as their wages are a lot higher than they get here. I went to book flights to go to England last week and the cost for myself and my 2 children was 65 euros each one way but the cost of the flight to come back was 235 euros one way so for me to go to England for the 3 it cost more for one to come back.

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:00 pm

Blimey Blue eyes!
I know what I'd do in the circumstances sweetie..(If you dont really have to come here)..Id stay put...not just cos of prices here but the B-------awful weather as well

Wanna change places with me?

angry shopper · Post by **angry shopper** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:39 pm

Yes how we agree with the Intermarche comments. We always get a friendly greeting and even service from the Ali-type smaller shops.And on the subject of restaurants and previous posts over the past few months, all I can say is "be very careful Julios" - you have been treading on thin ice for some while and we don't like their attitude to those of us who have dared venture into their over-hyped restaurant.....

Notary · Post by **Notary** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:24 am

I think you have to carefully compare prices here as anywhere else. Intermarche is expensive for some things but some of their sale items are good value. They have certain products that nobody else has, and generally have an excellent selection of wines and spirits. We are well served here with a good variety of different supermarkets and those who wish can go to Silves with Modelo and Lidl , to Portimao with Leclerc and Plus as well as Mini-Preco and Marichinho in Armacao, not to mention Contenente at Algarveshopping. Of course there are the ever present Ali-Supers. We use them all, from time to time.

Save money and nerves

save money and nerves