no longer updated - Tolls on the A22

[md 600 driver]

were having to pay our tolls for he first time airport to alcanteria anyone answer a few questions

how long do we get to pay before it goes up for penaltys ?
anyone paid for this journey alreadsy lately how much?
is it possible to check on the tinternet how much is owed ?
is it just postoffices you can pay at we are at senhora da rocha?
can you pay at airport when returning car and how long will it take ?

were in a yor rentalcar can they pay and take it off my credit card

steve

questions questions and questions ????

[traveler]

Why is Brisa being completely left out of the tolls debate? They received the right to toll the a22 - where is the cash payment to obtain this right? If they are supposed to maintain the road - I have not seen any road works yet. If you want the whole toll mess to rise up a level then turn the light on Brisa. They are also responsible for the toll system, not the government - this is their design which only to their benefit and not that of the user. Go to the Brisa web site - look at their financial statements and reports - Also, check out the board and CEOs compensation. You will find that Brisa is a cash machine - they are trying to obfuscate the reality with strange language but the fact is they make big money on their concessions. To much money for a public monopoly. From their news release.

Brisa - Auto-Estradas de Portugal SA announced earnings results for the nine months of 2011. In terms of profit and loss accounts, in terms of operating revenues, the company had a flat nine months when compared to the last year first nine months. Toll revenues, the company had a decrease of around 3%. And the company had just below EUR 108 million with EBIT up by 13%. In terms of the consolidated operating revenues, as mentioned, minus 3% on tolls. And in terms of other revenues, the drop is because the company had no COPER revenues, so no operating revenues from Brazil, which were around EUR 9 million in the first 9 months of 2010. So basically flat revenues. In terms of the financials and net profit. The company already mentioned the impact from investment, on the investment income from the lack of impact from the CCR stake. In 2011, the investment income is negatively impacted by the equity account in Douro Litoral, and this was a negative impact of EUR 18.3 million. And then on the positive side, the company had cash deposits that generated significant financial impact. So EBIT at 13% with net profit impacted by the sale, significantly impacted by the sale of CCR. The company has a decrease in CapEx on BCR to around EUR 54 million; on Brisal, very little CapEx; and on Atl ntico, a significant decrease on CapEx as the company expected. EBITDA minus CapEx, slightly above last year, so showing strong cash flow generation slightly above 2010. In terms of the balance sheet, basically maintaining a sound financial structure with net debt slightly below the net debt of 2010. So the company will achieve the main target by year end where EBITDA minus CapEx will be in line with 2010 reaching EUR 345 million. BCR continues to deliver a strong free cash flow. The company will be generating around EUR 180 million of free cash flow on a yearly basis. And on in this free cash flow, the company including EBITDA minus CapEx minus interest, and this had EUR 180 million is already taking into consideration the negative environment that the company is living on.

[RichardHenshall]

My understanding is that Euroscut (the concessionaire for the A22) is owned by Cintra and is therefore a subsidiary of Grupo Ferrovial, rather than Brisa.

[traveler]

Thanks Richard, I stand corrected. However, I don't think this changes the question. Why is the concessionaire and thier contract being left out of the debate?

[RichardHenshall]

I think that my view is that the state (ie the government of the day) is fundamentally to blame for (a) building roads that it couldn't afford and (b) using the private sector to do it, paid for by tolls (or shadow tolls). I don't think it's fair to blame the private sector for taking advantage of the opportunities available to it and for being more financially astute (than the government) in ensuring that it got paid for its efforts.

The toll collection system is another fiasco altogether.

[md 600 driver]

Well no words of wisdom so I went to try and pay

Went to news agents at supermarket at carverio they tapped reg number into there machine
But it said nothing was due but they said it maybe 3 days before being entered on the system

So next I went to the post office at lagoa very nice people they took my payment of 2.95 plus 31 c total 3.26
Only thing was it was busy and it took exactly 25 minutes

As this was out of season and I was the only person paying toll,
In the middle of the season it's going to be horrendous your all going to have to arrive 2 hours earlier at the airport just to join the post office queue

The 3 euros each way I can pay but I wont be queuing up so it's the old road for me on the way home in future or a taxi and no hire car. Sorry steen

Steve

[Craig]

I've just come back from a few days in Sesmarias. I used Resorthoppa on Friday the 3rd and we took the 125 at about 3pm. After one drop in Albufeira I was in Sesmarias by 4 o'clock. Coming back on the 125 on Sunday the 12th, again at about 3pm ( driven by a friend ) it took 1 hour at a fairly easy pace. A friend came in on the motorway on Tuesday and said he saw about 3 cars the whole way.

I think most of us will continue to use the 125 until this mess gets sorted out.

Craig

[Geoff]

I hate to disappoint "md 600 driver" when he says :

In the middle of the season it's going to be horrendous your all going to have to arrive 2 hours earlier at the airport just to join the post office queue

as he won't be able to.....as he would have found out if he had read through this whole section!

Tolls are not available to be paid for 24/48 hours , so can't be paid for the return trip to the airport : you either need to use the N125 or get a friend to pay them for you!

[bruce]

As a visitor to Carvoeiro for the past 15 years or so I have to say that the fiasco of the tolls is bothering us, we dont really care about the cost it is negligable but it is the thought of the complicated process of paying for the tolls that is our main problem and yes it is making us think twice about visiting again. Given the current economic climate there are many other beautiful places to holiday that do not impose this added burden that the holidaymaker can do without - it certainly does not encourage visitors to the Algarve.
A taxi could be the answer but that added onto the hire car cost is just not worth it. If we could simply pay at a booth then we would happily accept that but the current situation is off putting to say the least.
I know we can take it or leave it but this time we might just leave it.

[ron5000]

As a visitor to Carvoeiro for the past 15 years or so I have to say that the fiasco of the tolls is bothering us, we dont really care about the cost it is negligable but it is the thought of the complicated process of paying for the tolls that is our main problem and yes it is making us think twice about visiting again. Given the current economic climate there are many other beautiful places to holiday that do not impose this added burden that the holidaymaker can do without - it certainly does not encourage visitors to the Algarve.
A taxi could be the answer but that added onto the hire car cost is just not worth it. If we could simply pay at a booth then we would happily accept that but the current situation is off putting to say the least.
I know we can take it or leave it but this time we might just leave it.

There wasn't a motorway when you first came here and that didn't stop you returning. Another sensationalist remark

[James Faro]

[Bruce Wallis]

As a visitor to Carvoeiro for the past 15 years or so I have to say that the fiasco of the tolls is bothering us, we dont really care about the cost it is negligable but it is the thought of the complicated process of paying for the tolls that is our main problem and yes it is making us think twice about visiting again. Given the current economic climate there are many other beautiful places to holiday that do not impose this added burden that the holidaymaker can do without - it certainly does not encourage visitors to the Algarve.
A taxi could be the answer but that added onto the hire car cost is just not worth it. If we could simply pay at a booth then we would happily accept that but the current situation is off putting to say the least.
I know we can take it or leave it but this time we might just leave it.

There wasn't a motorway when you first came here and that didn't stop you returning. Another sensationalist remark

You may sneer, but I think that she has a point.................

I dont think the tolls issue will affect things this year, but if this years tourists get too hacked off, or as I suspect, ripped off by the more opportunistic hire companies, this year,.....they may well re-consider their options for 2013

That, my friends, is the real danger.

[bruce]

ron5000 it was not a sensationalist remark it was my opinion.
I am not in any way against paying the tolls and realise that the government have to find ways to generate income, what I do disagree with is the way the payment of toll charges is being implemented.
Do you honestly think that all holidaymakers will be happy to queue and then be told they owe toll charges for the previous users of the hire car ? I am sure word will spread and many will not even bother to go and pay thus leaving the burden on the honest person that does go and pay.
Thank you for reminding me that the motorway was not there 15 years ago, neither was the complicated system of toll charges.

[cereza]

There wasn't a motorway when you first came here and that didn't stop you returning. Another sensationalist remark

Seems quite a realistic remark to me.
With the increased flight costs plus dearer petrol for those driving this toll fiasco is just another reason for tourism to shrink.
From what I've heard bookings are down already for this year due to general economic reasons and any problems arising from this ridiculous tolls situation can only worsen the position for next year.
Harking back to "the good old days" will not do -The Algarve has to keep on improving in order to compete with other destinations and creating avoidable problems, like this, will not help.

[lincdoc]

I have previously crossed swords with Ron5000 on this issue. I simply cannot understand why the Portuguese authorities (whoever they may be) can think that is is reasonable to bring in a system which makes it almost impossible for tourists to pay for their toll system. Why should we be expected to pay for someone else's toll because the system cannot cope.This must be illegal under European law. Like many on this forum I have no objection to paying the tolls - just make it simple to do so. My sister-in-law and her family are due to use our apartment this summer.If this is not sorted I doubt if they will be back. There are other destinations with less hassle.