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Main fuse board - EDP
Main fuse board - EDP
A few years ago we had a new fuse board fitted whilst installing new electric gates and a large solar system for the house, all which was done by a Portuguese electrician.
Nothing wrong with that I here you say. Well that's what we thought, until a month ago when we applied to change our electricity supplier.
Two EDP guys came round to do some checks before we could move supplier, and whilst they were here I could here them talking and see them shaking their heads. Problems I said
Sim Senor, you do not have a security tag on your meter and you are getting a higher potencia than you should.
Okay I said what does that mean -
You have removed Your security tag and adjusted Your potencia to a higher one than You pay for.
Er, Nao I said, but maybe when the electrician who fitted the new box and did other work, HE didn't put a new one on.
Nao senor we put the tags on, and the electrician MUST call us to request that we seal the box after his work is finished. And You have higher potencia.
Well obviously he didn't request this, I said.
More shaking of heads, we must reduce your potencia and make a report.
Okay, I said and then what.
EDP will contact you. What about our new supplier,
You cannot change until EDP contact you.
After a week of electricity tripping when the gates opened or closed, and nothing from EDP, we rang to explain the problem and asked for someone to come out and resolve the problem that we were now having.
We can do nothing senor, there is a process in place.
What do you mean I said feeling my heart rate increase slightly.
You have not been paying for your potencia you have used, and you have taken off your security tag.
Er, yes I have paid my bills, and no I have't removed the tag, and I need someone to come and sort out my fuse box which keeps tripping out.
EDP don't do that, you must get an electrician to do that.
But your technicians were able to change something which has caused this problem, I stated quite firmly.
Yes because You altered your potencia was the reply.
Sorry I said, but can you stop referring to me as being the one who altered things, and tell me who needs to come and increase my potencia.
Until the process is completed, nothing can be done. Also you will need new cabling for higher potencia.
What is this process you keep referring to and why all of a sudden do I need new cables.
Your cabling is not enough for the potencia you need.
What, I said, the cabling works fine its the potencia that was reduced that has caused the problem.
Yes sir, but you weren't paying for the potencia level that you were receiving.
How was I to know that.
Because you were receiving higher than on your monthly bill.
How do I know what comes in, where does it say the tariff on the fuse box.
There is a number in the window of the box, it should show 15.
It does I said.
Yes but it was at 20 she stated rather forcefully.
And that means what, because my bill says 10.35kva.
Yes that is 15 she said, as if I should know the correlation between the two numbers.
Right I said well can you change it back to 20.
There is a process in hand and nothing can be done until then.
What is this process you keep referring to, because I am getting a little concerned now.
You will receive a letter.
When?
I can't tell you, I don't have that information.
Who does, can I speak to a manager. I pleaded
He will tell you what I have told you. Is there anything else I can help you with.
Errr Nao. Boa Tarde.
Now in a state of panic I tried to find out if any other people had security tags missing. 3 out of 5 people I spoke to all had the same situation as us, and all had higher potencia than their bills showed. And all had some electrical work done during the past few years.
It would appear that some electricians are increasing the potencia when they do additional installation work to stop the board from tripping, but not informing EDP of the changes.
Needless to say, the mobile number we have for the electrician who did the work is no longer in use by him.
I spoke to my lawyer who said just wait for the letter, I explained that until it arrives, we have a problem with fuses tripping, and apparently need new cable to the house which EDP does, but they won't until the process is done, and I am concerned about safety.
Don't worry, he said they would not leave your electrics in an unsafe situation.
So to everyone, check your fuse box for a security tag, and if you don't have one get ready for A Process.
The crazy thing in all of this is that we pay EDP over €1800 per annum, and yet the difference in the tariff rate for the period concerned only adds up to about €120 shortfall. The accusations inferred I am some sort of master criminal who was out to defraud EDP of a massive €5 a month but was happy to pay them €150 per month.
You couldn't make it up.
Nothing wrong with that I here you say. Well that's what we thought, until a month ago when we applied to change our electricity supplier.
Two EDP guys came round to do some checks before we could move supplier, and whilst they were here I could here them talking and see them shaking their heads. Problems I said
Sim Senor, you do not have a security tag on your meter and you are getting a higher potencia than you should.
Okay I said what does that mean -
You have removed Your security tag and adjusted Your potencia to a higher one than You pay for.
Er, Nao I said, but maybe when the electrician who fitted the new box and did other work, HE didn't put a new one on.
Nao senor we put the tags on, and the electrician MUST call us to request that we seal the box after his work is finished. And You have higher potencia.
Well obviously he didn't request this, I said.
More shaking of heads, we must reduce your potencia and make a report.
Okay, I said and then what.
EDP will contact you. What about our new supplier,
You cannot change until EDP contact you.
After a week of electricity tripping when the gates opened or closed, and nothing from EDP, we rang to explain the problem and asked for someone to come out and resolve the problem that we were now having.
We can do nothing senor, there is a process in place.
What do you mean I said feeling my heart rate increase slightly.
You have not been paying for your potencia you have used, and you have taken off your security tag.
Er, yes I have paid my bills, and no I have't removed the tag, and I need someone to come and sort out my fuse box which keeps tripping out.
EDP don't do that, you must get an electrician to do that.
But your technicians were able to change something which has caused this problem, I stated quite firmly.
Yes because You altered your potencia was the reply.
Sorry I said, but can you stop referring to me as being the one who altered things, and tell me who needs to come and increase my potencia.
Until the process is completed, nothing can be done. Also you will need new cabling for higher potencia.
What is this process you keep referring to and why all of a sudden do I need new cables.
Your cabling is not enough for the potencia you need.
What, I said, the cabling works fine its the potencia that was reduced that has caused the problem.
Yes sir, but you weren't paying for the potencia level that you were receiving.
How was I to know that.
Because you were receiving higher than on your monthly bill.
How do I know what comes in, where does it say the tariff on the fuse box.
There is a number in the window of the box, it should show 15.
It does I said.
Yes but it was at 20 she stated rather forcefully.
And that means what, because my bill says 10.35kva.
Yes that is 15 she said, as if I should know the correlation between the two numbers.
Right I said well can you change it back to 20.
There is a process in hand and nothing can be done until then.
What is this process you keep referring to, because I am getting a little concerned now.
You will receive a letter.
When?
I can't tell you, I don't have that information.
Who does, can I speak to a manager. I pleaded
He will tell you what I have told you. Is there anything else I can help you with.
Errr Nao. Boa Tarde.
Now in a state of panic I tried to find out if any other people had security tags missing. 3 out of 5 people I spoke to all had the same situation as us, and all had higher potencia than their bills showed. And all had some electrical work done during the past few years.
It would appear that some electricians are increasing the potencia when they do additional installation work to stop the board from tripping, but not informing EDP of the changes.
Needless to say, the mobile number we have for the electrician who did the work is no longer in use by him.
I spoke to my lawyer who said just wait for the letter, I explained that until it arrives, we have a problem with fuses tripping, and apparently need new cable to the house which EDP does, but they won't until the process is done, and I am concerned about safety.
Don't worry, he said they would not leave your electrics in an unsafe situation.
So to everyone, check your fuse box for a security tag, and if you don't have one get ready for A Process.
The crazy thing in all of this is that we pay EDP over €1800 per annum, and yet the difference in the tariff rate for the period concerned only adds up to about €120 shortfall. The accusations inferred I am some sort of master criminal who was out to defraud EDP of a massive €5 a month but was happy to pay them €150 per month.
You couldn't make it up.
-
RichardHenshall
- CVO Senior
- Posts: 317
- Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:21 am
Re: Main fuse board - EDP
It must have been quite therapeutic writing your entertaining account of this situation. 
From your report I infer that you (now) have a 3-phase supply (3 x 230v x 15A = 10.35kVA) but your electrician had previously adjusted the EDP breaker to 3 x 230v x 20A = 13.8kVA. As I understand the situation, if the load on any of the phases exceeds the rate for which you're paying (the potência), then the main switch will trip. Balancing the loads is important to coping with a lower potência.
I would be surprised if your gates (on their own) would exceed a 15A single phase load, so presumably your electrician has wired the electric gates into a phase that is already sufficiently loaded and then cheated to cover up his poor/lazy workmanship. Could you arrange to connect it to one of the other phases to spread the load more evenly, or move another device from the same phase?
FWIW the current cost difference between the two potência is nudging 75€ per year. I have no idea what the penalties for tampering with sealed EDP switchgear are but it wouldn't surprise me if, as a minimum, they didn't ask you to pay the extra from when the seal was previously affixed (when the house was built?) as they can't tell when it was changed.
From your report I infer that you (now) have a 3-phase supply (3 x 230v x 15A = 10.35kVA) but your electrician had previously adjusted the EDP breaker to 3 x 230v x 20A = 13.8kVA. As I understand the situation, if the load on any of the phases exceeds the rate for which you're paying (the potência), then the main switch will trip. Balancing the loads is important to coping with a lower potência.
I would be surprised if your gates (on their own) would exceed a 15A single phase load, so presumably your electrician has wired the electric gates into a phase that is already sufficiently loaded and then cheated to cover up his poor/lazy workmanship. Could you arrange to connect it to one of the other phases to spread the load more evenly, or move another device from the same phase?
FWIW the current cost difference between the two potência is nudging 75€ per year. I have no idea what the penalties for tampering with sealed EDP switchgear are but it wouldn't surprise me if, as a minimum, they didn't ask you to pay the extra from when the seal was previously affixed (when the house was built?) as they can't tell when it was changed.
Re: Main fuse board - EDP
Sounds like my experience with EDP.
They had not read our meter for about 5 years and I requested they come & do so. They found the wire on the tag was broken and the potencia was higher than we were being charged. I pointed out that we had been in the property 17 years and it had always been like that. He said we had an old wire & tag which they stopped using before we purchased and that it should have been picked up and dealt with by EDP many years ago. He dropped the potencia and put on a modern tag.
How could we increase the Potencia? - Our fuse box did not meet current standards so we would have to upgrade and they would inspect before increasing.
We did this, but they then decided they would not increase the potencia until we had a external meter installed. They could not do this until they had a site inspection and told us where to site this and what specifications were needed. It would take about a month.
A few weeks later we contacted them only to be told we did not need them to do a site visit and our electrician would know what to do. They would then come and install and connect the meter.
Electrician prepped everything - needs 2 boxes - one for the meter and one only they can access. EDP inspected and said it did not meet their specifications (which they had refused to supply!). They had to return another day with our electrician present. So back came our electrician and was told to make a minor alteration.
We then booked them to return to put the meter outside with their new cable from their supply to our meter cupboard. the electrician attended again and was astounded when they turned up without their cabling and said they would have to come back another time.
By now it was several months down the line. We, our agent and our electrician were throughly p*ssed off. The electrician suggested that they do what they could whilst he went and collected the cable. Luckily they agreed and we were finally legit and they could increase the potencia.
Oh how naive we were. This was not their department and we would have to put in a request. They were told this was our original request. Apparently as we had had work done we would have to make a new request and have the work inspected . This was the work they had just inspected and completed and found acceptable.
The good news was we could request this on-line.
Altogether a frustrating, expensive and long drawn out process.
They had not read our meter for about 5 years and I requested they come & do so. They found the wire on the tag was broken and the potencia was higher than we were being charged. I pointed out that we had been in the property 17 years and it had always been like that. He said we had an old wire & tag which they stopped using before we purchased and that it should have been picked up and dealt with by EDP many years ago. He dropped the potencia and put on a modern tag.
How could we increase the Potencia? - Our fuse box did not meet current standards so we would have to upgrade and they would inspect before increasing.
We did this, but they then decided they would not increase the potencia until we had a external meter installed. They could not do this until they had a site inspection and told us where to site this and what specifications were needed. It would take about a month.
A few weeks later we contacted them only to be told we did not need them to do a site visit and our electrician would know what to do. They would then come and install and connect the meter.
Electrician prepped everything - needs 2 boxes - one for the meter and one only they can access. EDP inspected and said it did not meet their specifications (which they had refused to supply!). They had to return another day with our electrician present. So back came our electrician and was told to make a minor alteration.
We then booked them to return to put the meter outside with their new cable from their supply to our meter cupboard. the electrician attended again and was astounded when they turned up without their cabling and said they would have to come back another time.
By now it was several months down the line. We, our agent and our electrician were throughly p*ssed off. The electrician suggested that they do what they could whilst he went and collected the cable. Luckily they agreed and we were finally legit and they could increase the potencia.
Oh how naive we were. This was not their department and we would have to put in a request. They were told this was our original request. Apparently as we had had work done we would have to make a new request and have the work inspected . This was the work they had just inspected and completed and found acceptable.
The good news was we could request this on-line.
Altogether a frustrating, expensive and long drawn out process.