|Home| Info| Community| Business| Beaches| What to do?| Rentals| News| Forum| Blogs| Finance| History| FAQ| Contact|
Where are the buyers going to come from?
who? … me?….Bruxinha wrote: Oh well...nice that there are people like you, Digger and others, who bother to give people helpful advice and considered opinions...
in reply to: “will Portugal ever become a dynamic economic power?”
all I said was: “I don’t think so, and I hope not”
Portugal is one of the poorest countries in Europe, has been for 100s of years and will be for 100s of years to come. There is not room for too many dynamic economic powers, so I think it best Portugal rules itself out (which I believe it has done) and concentrates on being good at tourism, where it has a lot to offer.
and OK Bruxi, since you’re calling for frank and open replies, IMHO tourism-wise I believe Algarve's future to be not half as promising as the rest of the country!
-
tbbr
on the contrary,
the " baby boomer " generation who are todays buyers have " done " the Benidorm experience and no longer want that type of thing.
Yes they want well planned and managed developments and are prepared to pay for them ( we know of such properties that have increased by over 50,000 euros in only 2 years ).
Rental income is not essential but its nice to have and who has empty apartments in july and August anyway ( we and our many friends and aquaitences don,t !.
PLease don,t assume that just because " todays " buyers are of a different class/generation that we do not apreciate what the algarve has to offer.
Its safe to raise young children, go out at night and the portuguese are still sone of the most welcoming nations in europe.
Perhaps because we have been through 2 major recessions, the booms of the eighties and nineties we do not view those who wan,t to make a living from us in a negative way because that is what we have been trying to do for the last 20 years
the " baby boomer " generation who are todays buyers have " done " the Benidorm experience and no longer want that type of thing.
Yes they want well planned and managed developments and are prepared to pay for them ( we know of such properties that have increased by over 50,000 euros in only 2 years ).
Rental income is not essential but its nice to have and who has empty apartments in july and August anyway ( we and our many friends and aquaitences don,t !.
PLease don,t assume that just because " todays " buyers are of a different class/generation that we do not apreciate what the algarve has to offer.
Its safe to raise young children, go out at night and the portuguese are still sone of the most welcoming nations in europe.
Perhaps because we have been through 2 major recessions, the booms of the eighties and nineties we do not view those who wan,t to make a living from us in a negative way because that is what we have been trying to do for the last 20 years
-
Guest
-
When was the "Baby Boom" year(s)?
July-Aug are only 2 months in a year. I.e.People who want a better life in the sun come to the Algarve with promises from the oh so welcoming Portuguese Estate Agents "yes" they say, no problem you can easily let all year round......no doubt the purchasers have done their sums to live in the Algarve based on the promised income. The E.Agents ...living sum... just increasd by 5 to 6 per cent commission on selling the property etc. Ok its up to the indivuals to do their homework.... but that does not excuse the utterly disgraceful behaviour by many Algarvians and even more so when sadly things go wrong finding themselves more often than not with very little real protection which is afforded to us in the UK and other E.U Countries. The Algarvians are a law unto themselves and any foreigner who lets down their guard on hearing "I am your friend" when really what is actually being said is "yummy yummy easy gravey"... franky, might as well hand over their wallet from the start. Yes I do speak from experience in that we had a Portuguese, oh so welcoming self proclaimed one of the famiy type friend (a lawyer) and likewise another son of a builder and lets just say they are the ones who hide in doorways and the like, when they see me or a member of my family.
P-s- When portuguese are childern, do you think their mothers tell them if you tell lies your nose will grow..hmmm must have a look next time I go shopping................. I love the Algave but not many of its Portuguese inhabitants nor any left overs from the fish/chip/beer brigade from B in Espana who wish to bring their ideals here. Sorry but has far as I am concerned.......... reality.
When was the "Baby Boom" year(s)?
July-Aug are only 2 months in a year. I.e.People who want a better life in the sun come to the Algarve with promises from the oh so welcoming Portuguese Estate Agents "yes" they say, no problem you can easily let all year round......no doubt the purchasers have done their sums to live in the Algarve based on the promised income. The E.Agents ...living sum... just increasd by 5 to 6 per cent commission on selling the property etc. Ok its up to the indivuals to do their homework.... but that does not excuse the utterly disgraceful behaviour by many Algarvians and even more so when sadly things go wrong finding themselves more often than not with very little real protection which is afforded to us in the UK and other E.U Countries. The Algarvians are a law unto themselves and any foreigner who lets down their guard on hearing "I am your friend" when really what is actually being said is "yummy yummy easy gravey"... franky, might as well hand over their wallet from the start. Yes I do speak from experience in that we had a Portuguese, oh so welcoming self proclaimed one of the famiy type friend (a lawyer) and likewise another son of a builder and lets just say they are the ones who hide in doorways and the like, when they see me or a member of my family.
P-s- When portuguese are childern, do you think their mothers tell them if you tell lies your nose will grow..hmmm must have a look next time I go shopping................. I love the Algave but not many of its Portuguese inhabitants nor any left overs from the fish/chip/beer brigade from B in Espana who wish to bring their ideals here. Sorry but has far as I am concerned.......... reality.
Yer you Digger...don't be so modest 
I didn't particularly mean on this topic but in general that you try to be helpful.
By the way, just out of curiosity, did you at one time live in the Algarve? Where do you think the competition to the Algarve is going to come from in Portugal?
I think tbbr there is no problem with anyone making a living from somebody else...isn't that what most people/companies do. My only problem is when people don't do it in an fair and legitimate manner and without any integrity
I think I know of the Guest's situation and why they are venting off...a particularly nasty case of betrayl purely for greed and self-interest with no concern or regard for anyone else but themselves. Oh well guest they say what goes around comes around.....
The only thing I would say about the guest's comments are that it isn't just Portuguese Estate Agents here. A lot are also run by Northern Europeans and can be equally reputable or equally dishonest.
I am thinking of drawing up a list of top tips for potential buyers/relocaters that I have gleaned since being here; from personal experience and that of other residents and expats. If anyone would be interested let me know by pm and when it is done I can maybe e-mail or post them. I will check with Mr G first to make sure I am not flouting any Carvoeiro.com rules and regs...it certainly won't and can't offer any legal advice but would purely be ideas and tips from people that have done it with success and people that have had problems.
I didn't particularly mean on this topic but in general that you try to be helpful.
By the way, just out of curiosity, did you at one time live in the Algarve? Where do you think the competition to the Algarve is going to come from in Portugal?
I think tbbr there is no problem with anyone making a living from somebody else...isn't that what most people/companies do. My only problem is when people don't do it in an fair and legitimate manner and without any integrity
I think I know of the Guest's situation and why they are venting off...a particularly nasty case of betrayl purely for greed and self-interest with no concern or regard for anyone else but themselves. Oh well guest they say what goes around comes around.....
The only thing I would say about the guest's comments are that it isn't just Portuguese Estate Agents here. A lot are also run by Northern Europeans and can be equally reputable or equally dishonest.
I am thinking of drawing up a list of top tips for potential buyers/relocaters that I have gleaned since being here; from personal experience and that of other residents and expats. If anyone would be interested let me know by pm and when it is done I can maybe e-mail or post them. I will check with Mr G first to make sure I am not flouting any Carvoeiro.com rules and regs...it certainly won't and can't offer any legal advice but would purely be ideas and tips from people that have done it with success and people that have had problems.
ola bruxi, I’ve never ‘lived’ in Algarve, but we did have a holiday home (apartment) in Portimao back in the ‘80s, when we were living in London. And I do remember cvo when it was a bit smaller and quieter. My wife who is from the north (Guarda) likes Algarve for holidays but not enough to want to live there (“not real Portugal”, bet you’ve heard that beforeBruxinha wrote: By the way, just out of curiosity, did you at one time live in the Algarve? Where do you think the competition to the Algarve is going to come from in Portugal?
).Re: Competition …. I’ve never looked at it like that! I just think more Brits are getting interested in the two big cities Lisboa & Porto, and for country/closed-condominium life anywhere in pt really. Of course most expats want to be not a mil miles from the coast.
having trouble following this thread …… I think the big question is “should we invest in cvo property? will it go up in value? will we be able to rent it out for loadsa money?” ….. I don’t know
Carvoeiro and The Future
What a load of old miseries some of you are!
Cvo is like it is today because we have all 'dragged it' into the 21st Century. It is our appetite for consumerism that has brought about all the pubs, restaurants and 'bling' shops that have emerged over the past decade and more.
Like everybody else I have seen the old pictures of the village in the 60s - during Salazar's reign and while it appears to be a pleasant little backwater, I would suggest that those who were around then would probably tell you that today's environment is a 'tad' more comfortable.
Comparing The Algarve and Carvoeiro with other European main/second home/retirement havens should not be done negatively. Friends of ours who sold up and went to France have now returned after 8 not so pleasant years. Having read in the many posts in here about Portuguese bureaucracy - the French could teach them an awful lot more. I know of similar reactions from a former business colleague who went to Greece and has now gone to New Zealand in the hope of avoiding the red-tape brigade.
I don't know if it is an British thing but why is it that most ex-pats feel hard done by when they bump into the bureaucratic forces of their chosen country. There is a kind of 'they should be glad we are here' attitude - reflected in an unwillingness to learn the language and customs of their new home. Before all you Brits start jumping up and down, I know - the Germans are not too dissimilar - but a lot of them have decided to go back to the Fatherland.
Any of you dissatisfied with the path of progress in The Algarve could always come back to the UK! You would be well advised not to - this is grass that is not greener. The whole way of life in this country is undergoing enormous change thanks to a Prime Minister who believes he is indestructible - thanks to his support for an unprovoked attack on an oil rich Muslim country and his continued falsification of the truth he has now made this country a very dangerous place to be - recent events in London are testament to this.
In the 23 years we have been coming to Cvo I have not seen any improvement to the bureaucratic 'process' - other than letters are now written on PCs as opposed to rickety old typewriters. Anybody expecting to find 'Little Britain' in any country beyond the shores of the UK is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Be thankful for what you have and embrace it - downtown Portimao has a lot going for it by comparison to what we in London have to contend with.
You lucky people
Cvo is like it is today because we have all 'dragged it' into the 21st Century. It is our appetite for consumerism that has brought about all the pubs, restaurants and 'bling' shops that have emerged over the past decade and more.
Like everybody else I have seen the old pictures of the village in the 60s - during Salazar's reign and while it appears to be a pleasant little backwater, I would suggest that those who were around then would probably tell you that today's environment is a 'tad' more comfortable.
Comparing The Algarve and Carvoeiro with other European main/second home/retirement havens should not be done negatively. Friends of ours who sold up and went to France have now returned after 8 not so pleasant years. Having read in the many posts in here about Portuguese bureaucracy - the French could teach them an awful lot more. I know of similar reactions from a former business colleague who went to Greece and has now gone to New Zealand in the hope of avoiding the red-tape brigade.
I don't know if it is an British thing but why is it that most ex-pats feel hard done by when they bump into the bureaucratic forces of their chosen country. There is a kind of 'they should be glad we are here' attitude - reflected in an unwillingness to learn the language and customs of their new home. Before all you Brits start jumping up and down, I know - the Germans are not too dissimilar - but a lot of them have decided to go back to the Fatherland.
Any of you dissatisfied with the path of progress in The Algarve could always come back to the UK! You would be well advised not to - this is grass that is not greener. The whole way of life in this country is undergoing enormous change thanks to a Prime Minister who believes he is indestructible - thanks to his support for an unprovoked attack on an oil rich Muslim country and his continued falsification of the truth he has now made this country a very dangerous place to be - recent events in London are testament to this.
In the 23 years we have been coming to Cvo I have not seen any improvement to the bureaucratic 'process' - other than letters are now written on PCs as opposed to rickety old typewriters. Anybody expecting to find 'Little Britain' in any country beyond the shores of the UK is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Be thankful for what you have and embrace it - downtown Portimao has a lot going for it by comparison to what we in London have to contend with.
You lucky people
Re: Carvoeiro and The Future
.... yes and they always have the word 'guest' under their name, if they have a name.td wrote:What a load of old miseries some of you are!
Nice post, td
-
tbbr
I certainly agree with TD like it or not todays buyers probaly do not have the same level of expectation or optimism of those in past years and are thus not as frustrated.
We and others we have come to know over the past 2 years visit the algarve at least 4 times year spending an average of 6 weeks year ( not july/august ).
Most have considered or are in the process of buying second or larger properties for that eventual semi permanent move.
All we know is ongoing development the up and downsides of living in a tourist area.
But as we approach that time when quality of life becomes the most important thing the algarve seems a hell of a lot better than a UK where standards continue to decline., crime is on the increase, traffic is appalling.
the nanny state is reaching " 1984 " levels.
We ( and i never voted for her ) are the thatcher generation so maybe just maybe we will be able to deal with " the downside of life in Portugal " a little better of not become as bitter as some contributors appear to have become.
We and others we have come to know over the past 2 years visit the algarve at least 4 times year spending an average of 6 weeks year ( not july/august ).
Most have considered or are in the process of buying second or larger properties for that eventual semi permanent move.
All we know is ongoing development the up and downsides of living in a tourist area.
But as we approach that time when quality of life becomes the most important thing the algarve seems a hell of a lot better than a UK where standards continue to decline., crime is on the increase, traffic is appalling.
the nanny state is reaching " 1984 " levels.
We ( and i never voted for her ) are the thatcher generation so maybe just maybe we will be able to deal with " the downside of life in Portugal " a little better of not become as bitter as some contributors appear to have become.
-
elle
Don't mind my asking tbbr..but have you actually lived and worked in Algarve?
Only as Bruxhina has said....and I know from experience it to be true..that being there on holiday..no matter how many times a year...is a totally different kettle of fish to actually living & working there !
Nothing miserable in saying that...its a fact.....
and over the years I've had quite a few people ask me 'what its like'..and I'm always truthful in what I tell them..
you cannot compare a few weeks/month or so a year on holiday to taking up permanent residence..no way Jose
Only as Bruxhina has said....and I know from experience it to be true..that being there on holiday..no matter how many times a year...is a totally different kettle of fish to actually living & working there !
Nothing miserable in saying that...its a fact.....
and over the years I've had quite a few people ask me 'what its like'..and I'm always truthful in what I tell them..
you cannot compare a few weeks/month or so a year on holiday to taking up permanent residence..no way Jose
-
tbbr
No I do not live in the algarve nor apparently do many of the " regular " contributors to the forum.
But I do know a mixed bag of " new " residents who do not seem to find life as difficult as is often reported.
This includes families with young children which is a major move to take .
I also know that those who are prepared work do make a living ( in some cases better than they had back in the UK ).
Of course we also know of others who have found life very difficult but they stay !!
Maybe we/they are fortunate in having access to good Portuguese lawyers and long term portuguese speaking english residents.
Yes we have heard the horror stories but these appear to relate to events " years " ago.
All I can ask is If life in the Algarve is so difficult and unpleasant why
do you stay and why are so many of us wanting to join you ???
But I do know a mixed bag of " new " residents who do not seem to find life as difficult as is often reported.
This includes families with young children which is a major move to take .
I also know that those who are prepared work do make a living ( in some cases better than they had back in the UK ).
Of course we also know of others who have found life very difficult but they stay !!
Maybe we/they are fortunate in having access to good Portuguese lawyers and long term portuguese speaking english residents.
Yes we have heard the horror stories but these appear to relate to events " years " ago.
All I can ask is If life in the Algarve is so difficult and unpleasant why
do you stay and why are so many of us wanting to join you ???
-
shanagarry
- CVO Legend
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:26 pm
- Location: Craigweil-on-Sea
Living and working in The Algarve
What precisely is the 'problem' with living and working in The Algarve? We have many friends who do just that and they all appear to be pefectly content with their lives.
Is there any alternative? If the 'problem' is beyond a comfortable compromise - do the other thing before those of you who are unhappy with your lot 'infect' the rest of us positive souls.
If living in Blair's World does not appeal to you - thank your lucky stars you are where you are.
Is there any alternative? If the 'problem' is beyond a comfortable compromise - do the other thing before those of you who are unhappy with your lot 'infect' the rest of us positive souls.
If living in Blair's World does not appeal to you - thank your lucky stars you are where you are.
There are numerous problems to living here - but as I said in a previous post, for us, they are outweighed by the benefits (but sometimes only just!)
It is hard to make a living here working for someone else, with average wages of 5-6 euros per hour, and that's not just bar work. If you can work for yourself, and can cope with the red tape involved in running a business, then you may be ok.
We had been visiting regularly for almost 20 years, had owned a property here for 3 years, knew lots of people - so we thought we were fairly well prepared - but living here was still a bit of a culture shock.
No-one can appreciate the difficulties unless they have done it - some people thrive and enjoy it, others can't cope, and for whatever reason, go back. As with everything in life, what suits one person may be another's nightmare.
Anyone who is planning to move here really should take on board the 'negative' comments - everyone knows the positive reasons for coming here, they don't need emphasising. It can be a great lifestyle but nowhere is perfect and if you have realistic expectations and are prepared for hurdles (whether or not they actually occur) then you are more likely to make a successful relocation.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best
It is hard to make a living here working for someone else, with average wages of 5-6 euros per hour, and that's not just bar work. If you can work for yourself, and can cope with the red tape involved in running a business, then you may be ok.
We had been visiting regularly for almost 20 years, had owned a property here for 3 years, knew lots of people - so we thought we were fairly well prepared - but living here was still a bit of a culture shock.
No-one can appreciate the difficulties unless they have done it - some people thrive and enjoy it, others can't cope, and for whatever reason, go back. As with everything in life, what suits one person may be another's nightmare.
Anyone who is planning to move here really should take on board the 'negative' comments - everyone knows the positive reasons for coming here, they don't need emphasising. It can be a great lifestyle but nowhere is perfect and if you have realistic expectations and are prepared for hurdles (whether or not they actually occur) then you are more likely to make a successful relocation.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best
-
tbbr
Well said!!,
We will be back in the algarve in a few weeks, midst the building noise, road works, fish and chips/mushy peas, crowded golf courses, the english on holiday at their worst , water shprtages, risk of fires and it will still seem a better place to be.
Maybe in 10 years time we will feel as some contributors do but please allow us our optimism , we too want to make the algarve a better place to live in.
We will be back in the algarve in a few weeks, midst the building noise, road works, fish and chips/mushy peas, crowded golf courses, the english on holiday at their worst , water shprtages, risk of fires and it will still seem a better place to be.
Maybe in 10 years time we will feel as some contributors do but please allow us our optimism , we too want to make the algarve a better place to live in.
-
shanagarry
- CVO Legend
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:26 pm
- Location: Craigweil-on-Sea
Making the move...
kteee
That's a great reply - thank you.
Taking those helpful comments on board, is there some way all of the constructive posts regarding living and working in The Algarve could be consolidated in one place so that those of us who will be making Carvoeiro our home in the future can access to help us avoid the pitfalls experienced by our predecessors?
Now we're making progress...
That's a great reply - thank you.
Taking those helpful comments on board, is there some way all of the constructive posts regarding living and working in The Algarve could be consolidated in one place so that those of us who will be making Carvoeiro our home in the future can access to help us avoid the pitfalls experienced by our predecessors?
Now we're making progress...