|Home| Info| Community| Business| Beaches| What to do?| Rentals| News| Forum| Blogs| Finance| History| FAQ| Contact|
burning their bridges
-
Guest
burning their bridges
this from the algarve observer........will it soon be time to leave the algarve??????
wednesday, August 24, 2005
Socio-economic and environmental effects of the fires
The consequences beyond the ash
8/24/2005 9:08:00 AM
The fires which are linked to the droughts and the lack of water resources could lead the country into an unprecedented crisis. According to Nuno dos Santos Loureiro, a specialist in climatology and hydrology at the University of the Algarve, it is a situation that could be alleviated by changing the relationship between the environment, the economy and the people.
The fires that have devastated the country have effects that go beyond the ash. The land has been burnt up, the countryside destroyed and the value of the environment drops year by year.
Up to 14th August, the burnt area had reached a total of 115,000 hectares, and since then the worst fires this year took hold, like the ones in Pampilhosa da Serra, Vila Real and Coimbra. The figures have not yet been calculated but will easily exceed the 129,539 hectares which were burnt in 2004, according to the General Directorate of Forestry Resources. 2003 was the worst year, with some 425,000 hectares consumed by flames.
Nuno Loureiro dos Santos thinks that this is a difficult year in terms of fires but that the dramatic reactions are caused by the shocking images that appear incessantly on all news programmes. He said that the only reason that Portugal doesn’t go down any further was that it has already reached rock bottom.
The specialist said that the environmental consequences are of little relevance when compared with the socio-economic consequences. The co-occurrence of drought and fires has almost fatal results for the soil, which is left with reduced capacity for storing water, is less fertile and thus has lower potential.
The specialist in climatology and hydrology explained that the vegetation might grow, but the capacity for creation of wealth on the land is lost, and might only recover in 10, 20 or 30 years.
He concluded that, in addition to this, desertification in the rural areas is intensifying and Portugal, whose agriculture and industry are already fragile and whose services are not the most efficient, is returning to a kind of Middle Age society with a specific type of population on the coast, and a desert in the interior.
He said that all areas are affected because poverty is a vicious circle and we are heading in that direction, adding: “Who is going to want to be a tourist, or hunt or have plantations in an inland region that is completely burnt?
Structural prevention and social responsibility
Nuno dos Santos Loureiro says that Portugal is doing nothing concrete to solve these problems and that the structural disadjustment of the whole system means that these tragedies are repeated year after year.
Nuno dos Santos Loureiro began by expressing regret at the attitude of people who attack fire-fighters and take their chairs to the roadside to watch a show called “Fire”. He added that more than 90% of the forest is privately owned and that now is the time to assume responsibility, not only when there are benefits.
One of the main reasons for there having been so many fires devastating the country in recent years, is the change in use of the land that has been seen over the past few decades. The lecturer explained that the multiple use of the forest, with agriculture and livestock, protected the land: later an imbalance was created that was never resolved.
The specialist warned that, faced with the difficulty of resolving this imbalance, the people in power continue to deceive people, and even themselves, and he put forward a number of measures that would alter this scenario:
making it very clear to people that the responsibility for preventing and fighting fire belongs to everyone, not just to others; find out who the owners of forest land are who want to exploit the land, and make them responsible for this; the government’s responsibility is to implement the first two measures and to realise that solutions also imply the inclusion of the necessary expenses for strategy and prevention in budgets.
wednesday, August 24, 2005
Socio-economic and environmental effects of the fires
The consequences beyond the ash
8/24/2005 9:08:00 AM
The fires which are linked to the droughts and the lack of water resources could lead the country into an unprecedented crisis. According to Nuno dos Santos Loureiro, a specialist in climatology and hydrology at the University of the Algarve, it is a situation that could be alleviated by changing the relationship between the environment, the economy and the people.
The fires that have devastated the country have effects that go beyond the ash. The land has been burnt up, the countryside destroyed and the value of the environment drops year by year.
Up to 14th August, the burnt area had reached a total of 115,000 hectares, and since then the worst fires this year took hold, like the ones in Pampilhosa da Serra, Vila Real and Coimbra. The figures have not yet been calculated but will easily exceed the 129,539 hectares which were burnt in 2004, according to the General Directorate of Forestry Resources. 2003 was the worst year, with some 425,000 hectares consumed by flames.
Nuno Loureiro dos Santos thinks that this is a difficult year in terms of fires but that the dramatic reactions are caused by the shocking images that appear incessantly on all news programmes. He said that the only reason that Portugal doesn’t go down any further was that it has already reached rock bottom.
The specialist said that the environmental consequences are of little relevance when compared with the socio-economic consequences. The co-occurrence of drought and fires has almost fatal results for the soil, which is left with reduced capacity for storing water, is less fertile and thus has lower potential.
The specialist in climatology and hydrology explained that the vegetation might grow, but the capacity for creation of wealth on the land is lost, and might only recover in 10, 20 or 30 years.
He concluded that, in addition to this, desertification in the rural areas is intensifying and Portugal, whose agriculture and industry are already fragile and whose services are not the most efficient, is returning to a kind of Middle Age society with a specific type of population on the coast, and a desert in the interior.
He said that all areas are affected because poverty is a vicious circle and we are heading in that direction, adding: “Who is going to want to be a tourist, or hunt or have plantations in an inland region that is completely burnt?
Structural prevention and social responsibility
Nuno dos Santos Loureiro says that Portugal is doing nothing concrete to solve these problems and that the structural disadjustment of the whole system means that these tragedies are repeated year after year.
Nuno dos Santos Loureiro began by expressing regret at the attitude of people who attack fire-fighters and take their chairs to the roadside to watch a show called “Fire”. He added that more than 90% of the forest is privately owned and that now is the time to assume responsibility, not only when there are benefits.
One of the main reasons for there having been so many fires devastating the country in recent years, is the change in use of the land that has been seen over the past few decades. The lecturer explained that the multiple use of the forest, with agriculture and livestock, protected the land: later an imbalance was created that was never resolved.
The specialist warned that, faced with the difficulty of resolving this imbalance, the people in power continue to deceive people, and even themselves, and he put forward a number of measures that would alter this scenario:
making it very clear to people that the responsibility for preventing and fighting fire belongs to everyone, not just to others; find out who the owners of forest land are who want to exploit the land, and make them responsible for this; the government’s responsibility is to implement the first two measures and to realise that solutions also imply the inclusion of the necessary expenses for strategy and prevention in budgets.
There is a tendency to exaggerate, mostly for reasons like 'I can get a grant to do a spot of research'. I know the fires are very bad, but about 1% of the country has been burnt this year. This means that 99% hasn't. So saying things like 'in an inland region that is completely burnt' is irresponsible to put it mildly.
'vegetation might grow, but the capacity for creation of wealth on the land is lost, and might only recover in 10, 20 or 30 years. '
a) It will grow, I'm surprised how quickly stuff grows back.
b) If the vegetation has grown. then you can farm can't you, so what does 'capacity for creation of wealth on the land is lost' mean.
c) Grass doesn't take 10, 20 , 30 to grow does it? Would oaks survive a fire going past quickly? Possibly. Eucalyptus won't, but that is a good thing. Horrible things.
'vegetation might grow, but the capacity for creation of wealth on the land is lost, and might only recover in 10, 20 or 30 years. '
a) It will grow, I'm surprised how quickly stuff grows back.
b) If the vegetation has grown. then you can farm can't you, so what does 'capacity for creation of wealth on the land is lost' mean.
c) Grass doesn't take 10, 20 , 30 to grow does it? Would oaks survive a fire going past quickly? Possibly. Eucalyptus won't, but that is a good thing. Horrible things.
http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/firemaps/ A global perspective.
http://maps.geog.umd.edu/ More or less real time maps
http://maps.geog.umd.edu/ More or less real time maps
-
Guest
of course it will take up to 30 years...trees take a long time to grow...as for burnt land being used for farming ..this assumes that there is plenty of water to use for farming....also take care...in africa burning land was banned because it caused soil erosion
yes it is serious.....the government here are guilty of not doing enough to prevent fires..having enough equipment to deal with them..and a fast replanting scheme ....not their usual talking shop answer...beleiving that if they talk about it they have done it...they have done none of these things.
one day soon you will find the algarve like its arab roots...will be a desert..in fact in messines where the silves camara chopped down loads of trees and replaced them with some telegraph pole palms (which are now dead)..the locals call the road "Bagdad Avenue"
things to come?????????
yes it is serious.....the government here are guilty of not doing enough to prevent fires..having enough equipment to deal with them..and a fast replanting scheme ....not their usual talking shop answer...beleiving that if they talk about it they have done it...they have done none of these things.
one day soon you will find the algarve like its arab roots...will be a desert..in fact in messines where the silves camara chopped down loads of trees and replaced them with some telegraph pole palms (which are now dead)..the locals call the road "Bagdad Avenue"
things to come?????????
-
Guest2
The consequence of fire on land is well documented. Fire, followed by rain means the topsoil finishes up in the nearest river and in hilly areas agriculture does not recover easily. Incidentally the increasing urbanisation of the Algarve has a similar effect since water runs off rather than percolating down to the water table and thus exacerbates the water shortage
FIRE IN ALGARVE
The same mistakes we made in France about the environnemental preservation are made here. No wood cleaning, hollidays houses closed six months a year, no cattle to clean up the meadows...
PM, when there is no Ground Cover (as in after a fire), and it rains, there is a process known as Erosion.pm wrote: Soil erosion after a fire depends partly on what you do afterwards. It's daft to say 'the topsoil finishes up in the nearest river'.
The rain washes away the topsoil.
The topsoil is suspended in the water.
The water finds it way into the nearest river.
That is why river water tends to get muddy after a hard rain upstream.
-
elle
Im not questioning your statements Coop..as I have little knowledge on the subject but...
With bad fires ..as there were in Monchique 2 years where hundreds of acres of woodland burnt.....
the trees roots would have stayed in the soil wouldn't they ? and I believe the roots keep soil in place....
Is this not so?
With bad fires ..as there were in Monchique 2 years where hundreds of acres of woodland burnt.....
the trees roots would have stayed in the soil wouldn't they ? and I believe the roots keep soil in place....
Is this not so?
Yes and no, Ellie.elle wrote:Im not questioning your statements Coop..as I have little knowledge on the subject but...
With bad fires ..as there were in Monchique 2 years where hundreds of acres of woodland burnt.....
the trees roots would have stayed in the soil wouldn't they ? and I believe the roots keep soil in place....
Is this not so?
When the Ground Cover is removed (in this case by fire) the soil is eroded by wind and water.
Eventualy, the erosion exposes the roots of the trees and the tree dies....unless it falls over first.
The effects of drought, fire, wind and water occure over a period of years.
The trees may hold some of the soil for awhile, but unless the Ground Cover is replaced quickly, erosion is going to happen. When the trees go, you've lost the battle.
I wonder what the Monchique area looks like today?
The world is a very much more complicated place than some people seem to think. It is not just a matter of
a) there is a fire.
b) all the topsoil ends up in a river.
It depends on the type of soil, the type of fire, the slope of the ground, the type of rain, the intensity of rain. In addition effects can be mollified by straw bales, logs etc etc. Seeds can be sown, binders can help to hold the soil.
Of course, if you prefer the 'we are all going to die' scenario, so be it
a) there is a fire.
b) all the topsoil ends up in a river.
It depends on the type of soil, the type of fire, the slope of the ground, the type of rain, the intensity of rain. In addition effects can be mollified by straw bales, logs etc etc. Seeds can be sown, binders can help to hold the soil.
Of course, if you prefer the 'we are all going to die' scenario, so be it
-
Guest
I'm not going to even get into the theories of fires but if Portugal is wanting more tourists they are going to have to deal with fire prevention. The country has never had so much negative advertising on the news........because of the fires!!! Many people who we know and have never visited the country assume that the fires are everywhere, their holidays will be ruined.......my heart just goes out to all who live there permanently and who have lost loved ones or their homes 
-
elle
I have asked this question before regarding fire prevention.....
doesn't Portugal have such things as
'Watch Towers'......in forested areas..such as they have in the States?..
where wardens with high powered field glasses or whatever...look for the slightest whisp of smoke...
then the emergency services can go in and tackle a blaze before it gets out of hand?..
after all..with the extremely hot summers/droughts taking place regularly...surely there should be more preparation..
prevention rather than cure...
doesn't Portugal have such things as
'Watch Towers'......in forested areas..such as they have in the States?..
where wardens with high powered field glasses or whatever...look for the slightest whisp of smoke...
then the emergency services can go in and tackle a blaze before it gets out of hand?..
after all..with the extremely hot summers/droughts taking place regularly...surely there should be more preparation..
prevention rather than cure...
You would need a hell of a lot of them. I posted a link the other day showing more or less real time satellite data mapping fires. I think they said they could resolve 50 sq metres, which is pretty small.
(Some things in the US are quite old-fashioned. Years ago they had blokes with flags working as traffic lights for road mending. We said we used doppler radar controlled temporary traffic lights and they thought we were taking the mickey.)
(Some things in the US are quite old-fashioned. Years ago they had blokes with flags working as traffic lights for road mending. We said we used doppler radar controlled temporary traffic lights and they thought we were taking the mickey.)