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EVEN MORE UP MARKET DEVELOPMENTS ???
EVEN MORE UP MARKET DEVELOPMENTS ???
Have just looked up web site of Oceanicodevelopments.
This is the company who are building two golf courses ( Faldo and O connor designs ) plus large numbers of villas and aprtments on a 640acre ( 259 hectare )site Nr Alcantrahilla/Algoz.
This massive development appears to be on the same scale as Pestana.
It is to be launched end of Month at exhibitions in London and Dublin.
AS I have asked before " Is this good news " or not.
They will not be cheap, does this mean then that the average 2bd apt or 3bd villa prices will rise ???
Is the algarve moving into different markets ???
This is the company who are building two golf courses ( Faldo and O connor designs ) plus large numbers of villas and aprtments on a 640acre ( 259 hectare )site Nr Alcantrahilla/Algoz.
This massive development appears to be on the same scale as Pestana.
It is to be launched end of Month at exhibitions in London and Dublin.
AS I have asked before " Is this good news " or not.
They will not be cheap, does this mean then that the average 2bd apt or 3bd villa prices will rise ???
Is the algarve moving into different markets ???
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Guest
Good or bad...depends who you ask tbbr. I live very close to the area, so obviously I hear a lot of local comment. As far as the expats are concerned, there will be some, who will be happy to sell up and make a quick buck, if the property prices rise around the area. There are of course others, who aren't interested in investments nor money motivated and who moved to the area because it is countryside, tranquil, private and because there were no developments in sight (the very reason they didn't buy on the coast). This second group are very sad and worried that more building will go on in the area.
With regard to the Portuguese, there wil also be some happy to cash in on the possible development of the area and others, probably the majority (from what I hear down my local bar), who will just become even more bitter about what "foreigners" have done to their Algarve and how they are being further priced out of the area.
As the guest said, let us just hope it rains A LOT this winter, or it won't matter how many reservoirs and lakes there are, as they will all be empty
With regard to the Portuguese, there wil also be some happy to cash in on the possible development of the area and others, probably the majority (from what I hear down my local bar), who will just become even more bitter about what "foreigners" have done to their Algarve and how they are being further priced out of the area.
As the guest said, let us just hope it rains A LOT this winter, or it won't matter how many reservoirs and lakes there are, as they will all be empty
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nightrider
Re: EVEN MORE UP MARKET DEVELOPMENTS ???
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Tbbr, I have voiced my opinion before on this particular project and given the overspill of choices (possibly the most in the world in one area) of golf courses. I cannot but join others on this forum and additional on the very serious situation we have with regard water, wild life and animals gasping for water and in some areas dying. For Silves Camara to permit this particular project is utterly disgraceful.
As for how much the property will be on the above mentioned project frankly, I could not care a less and that's from someone whose property will increase because of said project. But I and I am pleased to say others in these parts would rather they left the countryside and all that need it togther with the water situation alone. One cannot help but wonder what the EU Rules and Regs are on such a disgraceful situation and I am going to put my money where my mouth is and find the head quarters of Green Peace in Portugal and/or Friends of the Earth and join.
ps Are you aware of the completed project on the site of the old convent near Alcantariliha, opposite which is a third golf course project, which as I understand is approved, and is on the market for sale.This third golf course more or less I believe backing on to the above mentioned
Tbbr, I have voiced my opinion before on this particular project and given the overspill of choices (possibly the most in the world in one area) of golf courses. I cannot but join others on this forum and additional on the very serious situation we have with regard water, wild life and animals gasping for water and in some areas dying. For Silves Camara to permit this particular project is utterly disgraceful.
As for how much the property will be on the above mentioned project frankly, I could not care a less and that's from someone whose property will increase because of said project. But I and I am pleased to say others in these parts would rather they left the countryside and all that need it togther with the water situation alone. One cannot help but wonder what the EU Rules and Regs are on such a disgraceful situation and I am going to put my money where my mouth is and find the head quarters of Green Peace in Portugal and/or Friends of the Earth and join.
ps Are you aware of the completed project on the site of the old convent near Alcantariliha, opposite which is a third golf course project, which as I understand is approved, and is on the market for sale.This third golf course more or less I believe backing on to the above mentioned
If I had moved /retired from the UK to what I beleived to be and would remain a unspoilt rural location I am sure I would feel as agrieved as clearly are many contributors to this forum.
But what can you do about it ??
Are local communities concerned ?
Are local politicians concerned ?
Are national organisations concerned ?
If you are a farmer who sees his living declining every year or those who want to see improvemnts in the local standards of living how seriously will they take the opinions of incomers.
The answer is not to fight battles that cannot be won but to work with the system.
This will not happen overnight, it will probably take years and only succeed if we all become part of the community .
This is not just an algarve problem how many times have we complained about Nimbys in the UK.
But what can you do about it ??
Are local communities concerned ?
Are local politicians concerned ?
Are national organisations concerned ?
If you are a farmer who sees his living declining every year or those who want to see improvemnts in the local standards of living how seriously will they take the opinions of incomers.
The answer is not to fight battles that cannot be won but to work with the system.
This will not happen overnight, it will probably take years and only succeed if we all become part of the community .
This is not just an algarve problem how many times have we complained about Nimbys in the UK.
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nightrider
[quote="tbbr"]If I had moved /retired from the UK to what I beleived to be and would remain a unspoilt rural location I am sure I would feel as agrieved as clearly are many contributors to this forum.
TBBR
With the utmost respect, my comment as I believe that I made perfectly clear was not based on "Not in my back yard".
Out of interest, you would appear to be well informed of nearly every new development in the Algarve...are you in someway connected to this type of business?
By the way the projects that I was refering to were in part(s) ecological and therefore, supposidly protected.
TBBR
With the utmost respect, my comment as I believe that I made perfectly clear was not based on "Not in my back yard".
Out of interest, you would appear to be well informed of nearly every new development in the Algarve...are you in someway connected to this type of business?
By the way the projects that I was refering to were in part(s) ecological and therefore, supposidly protected.
I REPEAT AGAIN,
I have no commercial interest in the Algarve what so ever.
BUT as we plan to live a good part of the year in CVO at some time in the future I am spending Time investigating as many aspects of life and future developments as I can.
It does surprise me that someone who does not live locally can is more aware sometimes of what is happening than local residents ??
As to the affect of any development on sensitve ecological sites I am as anti as most of you.
I believe that the developments at Salgados are little short of criminal in their effect on the birdlife.
However that developments as with those referred to on this forum DO NOT seem to attract any local opposition.
WHY NOT ???
I have no commercial interest in the Algarve what so ever.
BUT as we plan to live a good part of the year in CVO at some time in the future I am spending Time investigating as many aspects of life and future developments as I can.
It does surprise me that someone who does not live locally can is more aware sometimes of what is happening than local residents ??
As to the affect of any development on sensitve ecological sites I am as anti as most of you.
I believe that the developments at Salgados are little short of criminal in their effect on the birdlife.
However that developments as with those referred to on this forum DO NOT seem to attract any local opposition.
WHY NOT ???
Read Property section of Sunday Times, article on Murcia region of Spain.
30 YES 30 New Golf courses planned for that region alone.
This in a area where drought and its effect on its main industry Agriculture is already causing serious problems.
You are quite right MONEY TALKS.
We are keen skiers and have visited Colarado many times, despite serious environmental issues and some eco terrorism all the Ski areas have expanded in recent years.
Why , because with this come Property sales and developments.
Plus Ca change.
30 YES 30 New Golf courses planned for that region alone.
This in a area where drought and its effect on its main industry Agriculture is already causing serious problems.
You are quite right MONEY TALKS.
We are keen skiers and have visited Colarado many times, despite serious environmental issues and some eco terrorism all the Ski areas have expanded in recent years.
Why , because with this come Property sales and developments.
Plus Ca change.
Morning all. Yep, G hit it on the head. Apathy rules unfortunately. I spend a fair bit of time with "locals", both in my village (2 or 3 minutes away from said development) and in Silves and many of them feel powerless or frightened to rise up and complain. The Fascist legacy of not causing trouble against "the state" still lingers on. The others just don't care about their environment and aren't educated or informed enough about the consequences.
My biggest worry is not the development...actually I personally don't have a strong opinion either way, except for the water and wildlife concerns but as I said earlier the quiet resentment simmering underneath many people I speak to (there's too many "bifes" here now and similar comments). It will only be a minority of Portuguese that really benefit from this development and others due to be built. Unfortunately, it never seems to raise the living standards for the majority. The people who will clean the villas, do the gardens, clean the pools and serve in the bars will still be earning just a few Euros an hour. I would love to be proved wrong on that and that the local people really will benefit, but I suspect it will only be a few politicians, local officials, lawyers and landowners who will
My biggest worry is not the development...actually I personally don't have a strong opinion either way, except for the water and wildlife concerns but as I said earlier the quiet resentment simmering underneath many people I speak to (there's too many "bifes" here now and similar comments). It will only be a minority of Portuguese that really benefit from this development and others due to be built. Unfortunately, it never seems to raise the living standards for the majority. The people who will clean the villas, do the gardens, clean the pools and serve in the bars will still be earning just a few Euros an hour. I would love to be proved wrong on that and that the local people really will benefit, but I suspect it will only be a few politicians, local officials, lawyers and landowners who will
Maybe one solution would be for the " bifes " to start a PR campaign.
Don,t shop at Continente ( french owned ) but at your local shops/markets
( maybe les choice but from what we have seen better quality and value ).
Don,t buy from Conforama ( french owned ) but again from your local shops.
Don,t insist on English food and drink or that " English be spoken everywhere ".
To mis quote chairman Mao " every journey starts with a single step " and if there is a simmering " anti incomer " feeling , NOW is the time to to take action to prevent it getting worse.
Its down to us NOT the Algarvians.
Don,t shop at Continente ( french owned ) but at your local shops/markets
( maybe les choice but from what we have seen better quality and value ).
Don,t buy from Conforama ( french owned ) but again from your local shops.
Don,t insist on English food and drink or that " English be spoken everywhere ".
To mis quote chairman Mao " every journey starts with a single step " and if there is a simmering " anti incomer " feeling , NOW is the time to to take action to prevent it getting worse.
Its down to us NOT the Algarvians.
I fully expect to get shot for this, but just to put the facts, the Algarve is nowhere near the most densely populated area in the world for golf courses.
Without even looking at Florida or Spain, Surrey has an area of 1,600 square kilometre. It has 87 golf clubs equalling over 100 courses.
The Algarve has an area of 5,412 square kilometres. It would need to have over 300 golf courses before it matches the course concentration levels of Surrey.
Surrey has a population of just over 1m. The Algarve has a permanent population of 350,000 swelled to over 1m by holidaymakers.
Holidaymakers (and retirees to the Algarve) have more time for golf than the average Surrey rat-run candidate.
It is not therefore surprising that those in the business of making money from golf courses think that there is still ample room for growth in the market.
I do not say that this is a good or a bad thing. But they are the facts.
Without even looking at Florida or Spain, Surrey has an area of 1,600 square kilometre. It has 87 golf clubs equalling over 100 courses.
The Algarve has an area of 5,412 square kilometres. It would need to have over 300 golf courses before it matches the course concentration levels of Surrey.
Surrey has a population of just over 1m. The Algarve has a permanent population of 350,000 swelled to over 1m by holidaymakers.
Holidaymakers (and retirees to the Algarve) have more time for golf than the average Surrey rat-run candidate.
It is not therefore surprising that those in the business of making money from golf courses think that there is still ample room for growth in the market.
I do not say that this is a good or a bad thing. But they are the facts.