Saturday Evening GNR Activity

[Gambrinus]

Why not? Does having a dependent relative make it OK to behave as he did? What about the relatives of the three people he killed?

If he cared so much about his mother then perhaps he could have sold his bike and given her the money.

No, you are right, there is no excuse for his behaviour.

On the other hand, he is going to have to live with the death of two people for the rest of his life....

Double back for a minute:
Why was he still on the road in the first place? He was notorious for driving through town at excessive speed - why did the authorities let him ride?
How much fault lies with the people who allowed this road rage in the first place? Was he even made aware of the possible consequences of his actions?

and finally, why does it always take several deadly accidents to prompt people to take action?

[Gambrinus]

Where (on the Free Map) is the location of the accident?

By the Vila Medici/Rede/Vimar restaurants on the Algar Seco intersection.

[Michael Crane]

Where (on the Free Map) is the location of the accident?

By the Vila Medici/Rede/Vimar restaurants on the Algar Seco intersection.

Thanks. Now I know and I agree with the speed some come tearing up/down that hill.

Mike's villa is not far away and we have to turn out onto the 'main' road and I am always very wary of the speed that vehicles approach that turning. It is also a section we walk along on a regular basis.

[Michael Crane]

Double back for a minute:
Why was he still on the road in the first place? He was notorious for driving through town at excessive speed - why did the authorities let him ride?
How much fault lies with the people who allowed this road rage in the first place? Was he even made aware of the possible consequences of his actions?

We are respnsible for our own actions. Too often nowadays, especially in the UK, blame is bandied about from one person the another when in reality the only one who should shoulder the blame is the perpertrator.

Nobody forced him to buy a powerful bike or to ride it recklessly - he chose to do so.

So, he has to live with it for the rest of his life, does he? Well so do the families of the people he killed. Who do you think will fair the better?

[Gambrinus]

We are respnsible for our own actions. Too often nowadays, especially in the UK, blame is bandied about from one person the another when in reality the only one who should shoulder the blame is the perpertrator.

Nobody forced him to buy a powerful bike or to ride it recklessly - he chose to do so.

So, he has to live with it for the rest of his life, does he? Well so do the families of the people he killed. Who do you think will fair the better?

Yes, we are responsible for our own actions, and I would argue that the initial responsibility for selling a motorbike that does 280KmH top speed to a 21 year-old lies in part with the seller and to a substantial part with the bodies responsible for educating and evaluating drivers before issuing them with a licence.

At 28 I have more experience and a better notion of the things that could go wrong if I abuse a powerful motorised vehicle and you at 50-something probably have exponentially more experience than this young man does. Whilst I fully agree that he is to blame for the accident, I still feel that there is a large amount of neglect on the part of certain people or entities who have the responsibility of regulating and above all educating young drivers.

[Michael Crane]

That sounds like a cop-out to me. Blaming others who sold him the bike or those that failed to stop him riding it recklessly. If culpability stretched that far then no one would sell anything to anybody in case they became liable for its misuse or abuse. How about those that laid the road - what blame would you apportion to them?

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, G. Let's discuss it on Thursday night, shall we, over a beer or two? Then again, let's not - let's just have a beer or two.

[Lesley Jean]

In an ideal world it would be really good to turn the 'hill' into a pedestrian area during the evenings but if you did where on earth would all the cars park?? Maybe someone needs to open a good car park in cvo and get some of the cars that double park off the hill. It is quite risky at night in the summer months.

[Ellie]

agree Lesley..Im saddened and sickened by this tragic event
Villagers here in Lincs were told by authorities that 3 people have to die before speed cameras can be set up.
Fedup with youngsters tearing through their village at 70-80 mph..the villagers had put up 'phoney ' cameras'..but of course had to remove them.. but I can well understand their feelings and actions!

[jeremy]

Call me a cynic if you wish, but having experienced a fine at Far Airport for just crossing a white line (4 Policemen present!) I think the system whereby the officers get paid commissions on fines results in them looking for soft, good earning, targets, like visitors or ex pats, who they know will pay up.

Not much good to them to stop a youth for speeding if he won't pay the fine.

It's a tragic story, and, whilst I hate "sleeping policemen" - they would certainly cut down the speed in town.

[Lesley Jean]

Agree with you Jeremy sleeping policemen might slow them down a bit, but can you imagine what the tiny Piaggio would do if one went over a hump like that!!

[Gambrinus]

If culpability stretched that far then no one would sell anything to anybody in case they became liable for its misuse or abuse. How about those that laid the road - what blame would you apportion to them?

What was that line again...? Ah yes, "guns don't kill people, people kill people." - b*llocks! A 600cc bike or a 350Bhp car are just as much a weapon if they get into the wrong hands as a gun or a rifle, the only differnce is that any idiot can purchase them whilst guns need to be registered and you need a clean rap-sheet and a good reason to own one - stop thinking like an englishman (this refers more to your messed up judicial system, so please don't take it personally) and start using your head - this is not about placing the blame, this is about taking preventive measures.

I wont make AS on thursday, but I will roll into Rascals on Friday. C u there - to be continued....or not....as you wish

[heini]

What a terrible accident, it makes me sad and sick to read about it. If the motorcycle driver is the one I think he is, I am and have been wondering for a long time, why he hasn't been taken off the road by now. Everybody seems to know him and his speeding antics, so the GNR surely must be aware of him as well. If he can't pay his fine, the bike should be impounded till the fine is paid and he should attend mantadory driver's education. But this is probably wishful thinking on my part....

[Guest]

Probably give AS a miss as well, shame but you know who will be
there.

[Sandie]

What a terrible accident, it makes me sad and sick to read about it. If the motorcycle driver is the one I think he is, I am and have been wondering for a long time, why he hasn't been taken off the road by now. Everybody seems to know him and his speeding antics, so the GNR surely must be aware of him as well. If he can't pay his fine, the bike should be impounded till the fine is paid and he should attend mantadory driver's education. But this is probably wishful thinking on my part....

If it is the same one that I am thinking of with a yellow bike, well 3-4 times a day he passes at such speed and this on the very bad curve just past the Almansor hotel and the noise of the bike you hear him coming before you see him. There is also another which is what I call the 4 wheel beach buggie type bike, a blue one who also does the same. Here on the curve the amount of cars and bikes that drive along it as if they are on a racing track is unbelievable. If the GNR parked up along the waste bit just as you go round the curve they would make a fortune on speeding fines. The best is to do like they have done in Alvor.

[cowboy]

As someone who has driven on two wheels (motorize) since I was 14 years old, I'ed like to get into this conversation with the hope that I might have a perspective on this truly sad situation.

To begin this, I have to tell you that my impression, on seeing how young motorcyclists drive in Portugal, is that I'm not supprised that this happened.

What does supprise me is that he took out so many people when it happened (usualy when a motercycle goes down, the only persons who are killed or injured are riding the motercycle), but that's what happens when the motercycle becomes a flying hunk of metal in a relatve crowded place.

So, let's take a look at the driver.....

The 600cc bike put out enough torque to catapult itself and its driver up restaurant hill reaching an estimated speed of 110Kmh within several hundred meters. When a careless pedestrian stepped out from the narrow sidewalk, the young driver did not posess the reaction or experience (aside from the fact, that he was driving about 80kmh above the posted speed limit) to avoid clipping the pedestrian sending her flying onto the sidewalk. He lost the bike which then turned into a several hundred kilo heavy projectile

Can't agree about the lack of experience seeing as the young man in question ALWAYS rode his bike around Carvoeiro at that speed, everytime he rode past someone said "He's going to have a bad accident one day"

If the motorcycle driver is the one I think he is, I am and have been wondering for a long time, why he hasn't been taken off the road by now. Everybody seems to know him and his speeding antics, so the GNR surely must be aware of him as well. If he can't pay his fine, the bike should be impounded till the fine is paid and he should attend mantadory driver's education. But this is probably wishful thinking on my part....

If it is the same one that I am thinking of with a yellow bike, well 3-4 times a day he passes at such speed and this on the very bad curve just past the Almansor hotel and the noise of the bike you hear him coming before you see him. There is also another which is what I call the 4 wheel beach buggie type bike, a blue one who also does the same. Here on the curve the amount of cars and bikes that drive along it as if they are on a racing track is unbelievable.

Based on what I've been told, I'ed say that the fault lies as much with the local police as it does with the kid driving the bike (although the final responcablity is his).

If you repeatedly drove any vehicle, two or four wheel, like that in the US of A, you would have your drivers license revoked.

Yes, we are responsible for our own actions, and I would argue that the initial responsibility for selling a motorbike that does 280KmH top speed to a 21 year-old lies in part with the seller and to a substantial part with the bodies responsible for educating and evaluating drivers before issuing them with a licence.

Horse Hockey.....you could sell a plastic bag to a woman.
Are you lliable if her 2 yr. old child puts that bag over his head and suffocates?

The reckless operation of that motercycle is a police problem once it's been sold.

What was that line again...? Ah yes, "guns don't kill people, people kill people." - b*llocks! A 600cc bike or a 350Bhp car are just as much a weapon if they get into the wrong hands as a gun or a rifle.....

Once the gun, rifle, motercycle or 350Bhp car is sold, it becomes a public issue on how it is used (i.e. the police).....and it seems, from what has been said here, the police have really let those poor people down.